Evil stalks the earth. It always strikes a gruesome blow and sows hatred and vengeance in all bystanders. It turns brothers against brother. We are witnessing such a time in Nepalýs history.

In centuries past, the Nepalis of Muslim faith worked the trade routes to the south to keep the country supplied with the few bits of technology and outside goods that the country had. These are the folks who traded in the considerable amount of precious metals and precious stones came into the city states of Kathmandu. Where do you think we got the gold and silver to mint coins for Tibet?

Most, if not all, of the bangles and bead necklaces worn by our women as symbols of marriage and as adornment have historically been created and traded by Nepalis of Muslim origin. They have played an important, if quiet, part in our culture and history.

And today, in an orgy of blind anger and frustration, our fellow countrymen have desecrated their places of worship. Many here, the supposedly educated and learned, have blindly called for their destruction and killing.

For when the heat of the moment passes and anger simmers down, even the hottest head will need to accept the the Muslim community in Nepal is absolutely nothing like the barbaric murderer who butchered the innocent 12. This is a shameful moment for us all.

How many here know of the thousands killed by the Spaniards five centuries ago? They destroyed the entire south American civilizations of that time? So, how many of you have boycotted Spanish products or culture? Anyone?

America: had the largest collection of slave labour in the past few hundred years. Many are familiar with the lines ýall men are created equalý by one of the undoubtedly brilliant men of any time: Thomas Jefferson. He was a slave owner and never set a single one of them free.

So how many of you have boycotted the Americans? Instead, by the thousands, everyone has applied for the DV lottery.

The maoists have got their victims to dig trenches, then hacked off their arms and legs and pushed them, still bleeding and alive, into the trenches they dug.

So how many of you have gone and burnt down even one table in their offices?

Are we operating on double standards here or what?

Spewing such blind and unreasoned hatred against any one community by the majority over the acts of the few is stupidity en masse. And this from our supposedly educated people? This is who we are? This is the best we can do?

Thousands of hardworking men and women of Nepal toil in various professons in the middle east. Yes, all those Muslim countries. It their dollars that have filled the coffers of the central bank and buoyed the economy despite the civil war.

The Nepalese economy has not collapsed because of the paychecks provided by the Muslim countries of Malaysia, and the entire middle east. So, perhaps those who are swearing at Muslims should also be prepared to find alternatives to all those billions of dollars paid by Muslims to Nepali workers.

And yes, all those promoting hatred should also be ready to feed, house, clothe and employ all those Nepalis who will be quitting their jobs in the entire Middle East to protest Islam. Say, why not make a truly grand gesture. Let all Nepalis return all the money they made in the middle east back to those hateful Muslims? How about it? One damn fine gesture: pile all the money that came from the middle east in a huge pyre in tundihkhel and set fire to it. Thatýll teach em. How about it? Care to put your money where your mouths are?

Yes, letýs condemn terrorism and confront evil in whatever shape or form we find it. It is the work of cowards to prosecute the innocent and helpless based on the religion of that group. That is evil too.

I have, with gratitude, seen many sane and level headed posters here speak up. Please, do letýs continue to do this. Let us do this loud and clear. Donýt let the hatred mongers smother your voices in a cacophony of hatred. You must speak out now, and you must speak repeatedly against hatred. Please join me in condemning all acts of barabarity, everywhere. Even those perpertrated by our own people.

Expressions of anger are expected and understandable at times like this. But such visceral and endless hatred as litters so many threads here is shameful.

Sajha is close to being a hate site. This has to stop. San, this is the moment to act.

Murder is murder, whether committed in the name of religion, politics, greed, or whilst engaging in a crime or as a criminal event in itself.

There are some categories of premeditated killing that evoke a louder response than other: the murder of children as occurred in southern Russia these past few days. Or killing in the name of religion.

Any way you look at it, it still results in someone being killed.

And who is to say one life is less precious than the other. Or that one killing is less terrible than the other?

Have those making such claims conducted a poll of those murdered to ascertain which of the victims felt more violated and dead? Does it make any one of the victims less dead?

Does it mean the ones killed by the Maoists or unjustly by the RNA are any less dead than the Iraqi 12?

Does anyone of the bereaved families feel less of a loss?

Is it plausible to make such an incredible claim even in private, let alone on a globally accessible public platform? And we happen to have hordes ready to do so. Such courage ! This is our definitive national character, ain't it?

About historic mistreatment of minorities and other atrocities.

Hindu zealots march on and destroy a many century old mosque. This based on a belief that the site originally was a such and such Hindu structure. Has anyone realized that the subsequent archaeological investigations were unable to decisively verify such a claim? Subsequently, that there was insufficient political will, but more tellingly, lack of social conscience to publicly acknowledge this?

If were go down that path, the world can be lit up in flames over every historical injustice, real or imagined. Thatýs the point I was making with reference of Jefferson and the Spanish conquests. Apparently, I failed to present it in a manner such that readers could grasp the concept.

Those Nepalis of Muslim heritage are not Johnny come lately wild-eyed zealots. They are our people. They are one of us, as they are people who lived in harmony with our forbears for centuries whilst making useful contributions to society.

But now, suddenly, their credentials as true citizens are being questioned? They are not true Nepali, is that it? Close to one millennia of living in the land is not long enough? So when is the cut off date? Two thousand years? The last ice age? Heck, lets move the qualification date back to the first hour after the Big Bang. That ought to do it.

It is this kind of narrow-minded bigotry that lead to the killing of the Iraqi 12. Except, here, it is cloaked in prose.

So some are Catholic than the Pope, eh?

Now about the barbs directed at those who attended St. Xavierýs and St. Maryýs school/college. I have repeatedly heard over the years the insinuation that Xavier/SMS students are secretly insidious automations that are brainwashed into converting everyone they meet into Christianity.

It is such a delicious an allegation that most succumb to its temptation. Then the vendors of such poppycock nod their head in sagacity as they whisper this sotto voce to whoever is foolish enough to believe such nonsense. Hilarious stuff, this.

Another wit states that ýit wasnýt just hard for them (meaning slave owners) to free the slaves but it was impossible.ý Right. Impossible?

There has never been, or ever will be, an economic or any imperative in the history of this world, or even this galaxy, to justify human slavery. Certainly not in America, and definitely not by Thomas Jefferson.

So put that in your pipes and smoke it. It'll add iron to your blood.

Czar get real. WAKE UP...HAVe you ever heard a philosopher ruling a country? Czar, you are just a dreamer..murder is a murder re...then stop calling yourself a Nepali, Prithivi Narayan Shah killed thousands to unify Nepal, he is a murder..if you hate murders so much give up your identity as a Nepali...


as someone stated above, Ideologically, everything and anything is possible, but get real czar, sitting on your chair, thinking for great ideas and typing it in sajha, will obviously make you sound big, but go and feel the real world, and see how ur ideology of murder works...i dont know what you are trying to convey by your posts but do get real and start living in this world rather than dreaming or stating such "filmi" dialouges...Murders arent always murders, again, understand that... .peace has always been possible thru war...(not that i beilieve in destruction but its the fact)

Czar oh yah, one more thing, if you are trying to aim your posting towards normal readers like me rather than intellectuals like you, do make clear what you are trying to say..

Sitara, i dont know if you didnt understand my not-so-good english without any big vocabulary:) or is it just you didnt read it..i never agreed on committing voilence or such an act of mudering, i was just telling czar to shove up his dammn speech...but, as you said of mudering those millitants who murdered our brothers i would feel very proud to do that and yes it will make me brave...very brave! but, again Sitara, that's just not possible, and i know coz i dont dream, i become real and for me taking someone's life is just not possible...

czar, i think you just hear too much rumors, St Xavirer's / Mary's have created great students and some of the lively example can be seen in Sajha, and REMARK MY WORDs, those students have not been brainswashed to change ppl into chirstians, but THERE ARE missionaries who try to do taht, without hurting and creating voilence and in my view those ppl arent bad ppl..


and for you all dreamers trying to bring ur dream into reality, have you all heard of Karl Marx and Engels, they wrote a book called, "Manifest der kommunistischen Partei", its such a great book, it gives us an expalnation of great dream, arguing captalists society is unstable, and stating the mode of production...this book is just great but cant be followed by all human beings cause by nature we are greedy, selfish and power hungry... hope you all understand what i mean...GET REALISTIC...

and FYI, czar i dont smoke..i am a clean person and i wish to remain clean...

and, SAN DAI, NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT...stop this vicious guy from promoting such action as smoking...smoking is bad ...:)


so please be careful when you say something..:)

ooh yah czar, i found an interesting post, posted by nitu, read this i think your understanding between killings of Maoist and killings of those pigs would be differenate:

"We all understand your weak points and comments. ----(my fav line)

Muslim extremist and Maoist are different. American and Nepalese are different. However, they all have one head, four legs and one body. They all have heart, brain, eyes and mouth. They all have red blood. They all are human beings. Some are bad and some are good, too. But they are different in principle and action.

Key matter is a ýStarting Points or Root problemý.

What is a root problem in Nepal?
Who are causes?
Who is/are responsible?
Why they are killing and dying?
Why they are doing Revolution?
Why they are fighting?
Are they stupid?
Is Nepalese government, Nepalese Politicians or Leaders and Nepalese Political Parties are good (Responsible, Strong moral, Leadership & Judgemanship, Visionary, Corruption Less, Crime Less, carry Clean records etc)?

We have to figure out these answers before biting everybody like a mad dog. "

correction : killings by* maoists and Kiling by* these pigs

Lookz Like Somethin' iZ goin' oN!!!

But, naaaaa i anit gona rite a lot and waste my time, i hav somethin' betta to do.

Anywayz, "confuesd" those are very interstin' question but very very hard to ans.

But, i will try mie best.

1. Teti pani taha chyina : "economy"
2. I didnt understant this que, yar! :(
3. I know his name, but itz kinda a secret. So, bro i cant reveal it in public.
4. Tyo ta 'marne ra marne' lai nai shodnu parcha yar!
5. I think they lop to it, thatz why.
6. THey are fightin' cuz ....!, Bro yedi maile yo question ko answer lekhe bhane, i dont think therez enough space in the hard drive of sajha to put my message.
7. "Si"





Pease Out

Bravo Czar!

I was getting sick and tired of one after another derogotory and absurd comments made by sajha members whom I had thought to be more adept than this. I am simply mortified and shamefaced by the comments made by these individuals.

who led the dogs out? who let the dogs out how how how how hwowh how how hwo how..........................

CZAR, point noted. But again, picking out an exception-- that of Babri Majit, I assume-- to justify your arguement is merely splitting hairs. Though I understand your allusions more clearly now, you can't hide from the fact that those were the 'muslims,' who killed our brothers in Iraq and not Jews, Christians or Hindus. Again, you make sound ideological assumptions friend, but this is a all-too-real world -- hatred invariablly spills out when patience is tested, no matter what you believe in, no matter which part of the world you live in.

Again, I would like to point out that the rioting that took place in the streets of kathmandu is not an exclusive incident. The hatred against Sikhs and Muslims in US after 9-11 struck terror in the heart of those minorities throughout America-- one turbanated Indian was shot dead, if my memory serves me right. The anti-muslim campaigns have gained new vigor in countries like Italy and Spain. So let no not be unduely critical of our people for acting on the spur of the moment: it is the same everywhere.

Similar arguements may be made about the concenrn shown by many countries like France, Japan, US and India on the capturing of their citizens in Iraq. Why is France exhausting all its options to free just a couple of people? Why does the American government raise such hue and cry every time one of their's is captured? Don't hundreds of Americans die each day in the street fightings in there own country, at the hands of their 'fellow Americans?' So why bother for the life of a life of a person who, in all his wits, 'chose' to be in a danger zone? Why, aren't thousands of Indians dying each day of poverty? Why make such a fuss about three truckers, then? Because CZAR, it is not the question about only the individuals then, it is the pride of one's country that is in stake. Our brothers killed in Iraq would undoubtedly have preferred to die with dignity in Nepal than be slaughtered like pigs in some foriegn land.

The worth of a human life is same everywhere. But let us not forget that each of us has the right to choose his destiny-- isn't that the very essence of being a human being? It has not even been confirmed that those Neplease chose to be in Iraq -- let alone choose to die there. So let us not bury our heads in sand by remotely suggesting that 'it's the same to be killed in cold blood in a distant land, than to die with some semblance of dignity in one's own country-- even if at the hands of the Maoists.

DWI,

At this point of time, when, in all probability, some unknown potential murderer of a poor and innocent Nepali Muslim is sharpening his Khukuri at home and some known elements (let more reports about the vandalism come out, we will know they were really there !) who benefit from the increased chaos and destabilization are looking for just that chance, you could take holiday from rationality and immunity from the accountability to your failure to discourage the violence, or even worse, your sympathy to them.

Does not sound right to me. We probably should talk when you return from the holiday :-)

Communal harmony, even if it is only at a superficial level, is very precious to us becauseý becauseý it is among very few things left for popular justification for our very independence. The fact of the matter is that with the prolonged political chaos and violence we are rapidly losing the justification to our independence.

The news of the release of Indian hostages by those who did not wait to butcher our fellowmen hurt us more. Whether a superior diplomacy, money, perceived threat to very large Muslim population of India or secular statehood of India or all of them were involved in their success is a separate story. To us, it was hurting to see that we aren't as much secure as India.

So it is very sensitive and critical time. We need to save all our assets that is still intact. Communal harmony is one.

Nepe,
We've hear a million times,
Rish ho sabako satru
Rish le saba nasine
Rish le uthdachha jhagada...

But can we always control Anger? Sure, it would be a RIGHT thing to do, but human nature is such that we just can't help it.
What you are saying is Right, I won't deny it. But being a human, it is hard to support Right all the time. All I am saying is they weren't RIGHT to do so, but considering the circumstances, it shouldn't be considered the gravest inhumanity commited by the mankind.

If we follow your thoughts, then no war is right. Rightfully so, but then no armies would line up in the LOC and fight for their country (remember Gitopadesh?). Probably the comparison is wrong, but the gist is that doing RIGHT thing is not always the human way.

For me the concern of losing 12 people in foreign soil in such a grave manner was more (I am actually amazed that most 'Right' people could completely shadow the truth of losing these 12 innocents and just think about what Nepalese did in the aftermath). Right now, if I could, I would go myself and stop the violence that you are saying might erupt again. I've alreay said earlier, it shouldn't prolong itself.

Bottom line is, we might have taken the news in different way, one thing for sure, we both want to see Nepal prosper and maintain a 'communal harmony.' We have done that in the past, we can do it again.

DWI,

It's not as much as 'Agra ko kura' and 'Gagra ko kura'. However, we are definitely not talking about the same thing.

My interest in this exchange was to know firstly what do you think your duty is at this point of time and secondly if you are aware of exactly what was happening in Kathmandu. I am not sure if you cared about these things.

You look content with the news of vanadalism from Kathmandu. You are refusing to look carefully at the real facts. The real facts are very disappointing. Lack of wider participation of the people in the protest and signs of co-ordinated activities by the King's men rather than a spontaneous apolitical activities are among some that I think defeated the very cause of the protest.

I have seen and been in the spontaneous protests people do- both at home and very happening part of the world and have been moved by the display of emotions. Disappointingly enough, what happened in Kathmandu did not move me. On the contrary, I was disgusted. You could, but I could not identify myself with that protest. I was expecting stronger, larger and genuine protest which did not happen- to disappointment of many I believe.

You saw 'right' people's preaching shadowing the fate of 12 victims. I don't see it that way. I think these 'right' people were trying to stop another similar tragedy from happening. Of course, you need to look at the Mislims in Nepal as 100% Nepali for that to see which I am sure you do.

If you are suggesting that these 'right 'people perhaps are not feeling as much pain as you do, I say you are 100% wrong. I don't think any Nepali should have felt less pain than your are feeling.

When my colleague at my working place first broke that tragic news in the morning after that fateful day, I could not help, I broke into tears. Then I started to look for every news about it. I saw the picture. I read the description of the video. I knew everybody is feeling the same anger, anguish and utter sense of helplessness that I was feeling. And in that common anguish, I also felt a very fresh connection with every Nepali around the world. That made me feel like crying. But this one was not painful. This was warm. This was sweet. This was inspiring. Ok, I am being sentimental. But there was really something there, in me and in the air I breathed.

The way the protest unfolded at home and the way we are more divided rather than united over this has destroyed much of that sweet pain of a fresh solidaity I and hopefully many others felt. Aba shok laai shakti ma parinat garne kura ta ke garaai bho ra.

Anyway I am lost in my sentiment for now. But I am glad I could share this with my fellowmen in this forum.

Back to work. Back to harsh realities.

Ha! Ha!

I am really fascinated to read from all the BIG HEARTED (POLITICALLY CORRECT) LIBRALS in this thread. This is a good position to take if you are planning to run for an office somewhere in Terai with Muslim majority or seeking a commissioner position with the Human Right Commission.

What we are forgetting here is that the 12 Nepalese were murdered because they were not "Muslims", which interestingly is what their holy book asks them to do.

So could any of the BIG HEARTED LIBRALS in Sajhaland explain me can the Muslims (Including Nepalese Muslims) be decorated with "innocent" title for practicing a religion which preaches hate against all other religion and the entire women population (including their own women)?

I have nothing against a human who happens to be a Muslim, but I have serious problem with a Muslim who happens to be a human and I am yet to meet with someone who belongs to the first category (may be 35 years including 29 years in Indian Sub-continent is not enough).

Peace!

in my school they have first and second semesters, whatever i study in my first semester i dont seem to remember it in second semester, and that seems to be problem out here too..learn to think from below ground then develop your thinking to ground up...learn to feel the feeling of that "kancha" in nepal, instead of just learning how to use microwave to cook stuff....
so whats the worth of education if you cant remember what was taught to you in the first grade, whats the worth of giving a dumb speech if you cant feel the vibes of hundreds of people ....thats why too much education is bad, it will ofcourse teach you how to think intellectually, but it will make you immune to the thinking of normal beings..

what are you talking about?
Date a girl from St. Marys and marry one from Mahendra Bhawan.
Let the maoist kill all the people from blame outsiders.

If you don't agree who cares, iif you agree raise your hands.

One can squabble as much as one wants for the sake of an argument. As many irrational ideas and pre-conceived notions can be presented in contradiction, that indeed the reasoning becomes an apparent one. And, itýs the way of thinking that makes one disagree with another. But, how sensible and practical is it to keep bickering on nonsensically?

It is an undeniably a saddening experience for all the Nepalese people around the world. Whatever the extremist Muslim militants did in Iraq, unquestionably it is an inhumane and most gruesome act of violence against humanity. Undoubtedly, such barbaric actions should be brought under condemnation. But, how judicious and humane is to target our own Nepalese brothers and sisters in retribution for what the Iraqis did in Iraq? For a mere fact they believe in the same religious belief?

hate equals hate
love equals love
equation is balanced
so the topic is closed

Anyone who posts below me is a DONKEY.