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Kalopoolbasi
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Posted on 01-02-08 5:44
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If I am not mistaken, I think we just had "Lochaar" not "Lhosar". My understanding is "Lochaar" is associated with Tamu-Gurungs whereas Lhosar is associated with Tamangs, Sherpas and Tibetans. We will celebrate Lhosar in or around Maghe Sankranti. Am I on the right track here? Please guys help explain it to me.
If you can also explain me the difference between Manange Gurung and Lamichhane Gurung that will be great too. Do they have similar cultural practices? Or is it Manange Gurungs are Buddhist Gurungs while Lamichhane Gurungs are influenced by Hinduism as well? Also, there is a minister called Prithvi Subba Gurung. Is Subba just a middle name in his case? My understanding was that Subba was a Limbu Caste.
Anybody who can shed some light on this will be greatly appreciated.
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Bob Marley
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Posted on 01-02-08 6:27
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Lochar-Tamang too There's no black and white distinction on these matters. Things get blurry as people migrate and assimilate with the new environment. The proper name for all of them is "Tibeto-Burmese" according to Western term and all of them fall under that category to make things easier. As far as I know, Manang are almost like Tibetan and Sherpa in term of culture and religion, except for the language which is more Tamang, if I'm not wrong. "Subba"? that could be mean a type of government post too, so there's no surprise there.
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Samsara
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Posted on 01-02-08 7:54
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Kalopool, whats the diff between a Mustange Bista and Om Bikram Bista? What about the Mustange Lama and Raju Lama? What about the Sherpa from Namche and the Sherpa from Helambu??? Nothing, Nada, Zip...the pieces don't fit! Their languages are different, their traditions have unbridged discrepancies and their religious outlook on life are viewed in totally differently perspectives. The only thing that matches here is the Last Name/Surname. Same applies to the Gurungs of Manang and the ones from Lamichhane (or the Ghales from Manang and the Ghales elsewhere). Why are the Manange's considered Gurungs? As per history, it is said that for the census undertaken during the Rana Regime, people from the mountains/far-out areas were catergorized and given "Nepali" last names to account for the general population who didn't fall into the 4 varnas (except for the Sherpas who already had made a name for themselves and Nepal everywhere through their high-altitude services to the Himalayan expeditions). So, that is exactly how a "gurung" part came into a Manange name (or a "lama" in a Mustange name and a "Sherpa" for a Yolmo's surname). To impose a sense of the varnas into the hill-peeps daily lives for better control of them, the Ranas categorized the more affluent and royal Mananges as "ghales" and for the Mustanges, they categorized the upper echelon as "Bistas". hahahha But sadly, the very peeps for whom the Rana's intended this for didn't notice any difference!! hahahaha Manange ghale and gurung still ate off the same plate!!
On another note, the late-great Harka Gurung always considered Manang to be the root of the Gurung civilization in Nepal. According to him, the Gurungs of Nepal first migrated from Tibet using the Thorong Pass into Manang and then travelled further down into the lower hills. However, seeing so many discreps in the 2 cultures, I feel that this theory would rather suit the Tamang version instead. As per the Dalai lama, "Ta" (horse) "Mang" (warrior) came into Nepal from Tibet eons ago...However, the Tamangs who chose or stayed put in the mountains for some unknown reason became current day mananges (as they did not interbreed with the peeps of the lower hills). The Tamangs who moved south slowly assimilated into normative nepali culture. In contrast, the ones who remained behind in Manang still clung to their barbaric, warrior roots (still can be seen in and around Ktm) and kept the horse riding and archery tradition alive until today . LOLz. And to support my theory, the phonetics in Tamu are very similar to the ones used by Mananges. Also, the Lhosar celebrated does not coincide with the Tibetan one and finally, we even greet the ones we know not by saying hello but rather, "kain chaje?"
Last edited: 02-Jan-08 08:44 PM
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Kalopoolbasi
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Posted on 01-02-08 11:11
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Thank you Bob Marley and Samsara for your responses. Other experts comments (if any) are also welcome....
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Himalaya178
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Posted on 01-03-08 12:17
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Samsara,
I have been reading your thread on sajha and I was with you for it but the second part of your earlier thread does not makes any sesne. I don't think Late Dr Harka Gurung ever said that but I might have missed his articles too
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Samsara
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Posted on 01-03-08 1:02
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Himalaya, in case you ever wondered, Dr. Gurung invited the heads of the manang community in Ktm the mid nineties saying that they too needed to attend the gurung samaj meetings in Ktm since they represented a part of the gurung community. As per the chain of events, the reasonings I mentioned above was the major emphasis he put forward. However, the mananges chose not to attend as they felt they were better apt straying from anything political and moreover, they always held the belief that community service should only be done if it benefited the manange gurungs...This thinking today, has now changed (I hope). LOLz
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