Let us all unite against theanti-Hindu forces in Nepal. CAN WE DO IT?

Let us spread message against what is happening to Nepal.
WE WANT IT TO REMAIN A HINDU STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we unite?
This will be the real challenge.
Look at how Indian medicos/engineers are uniting against job reservation.

Well, OUR RELIGION,HINDUISM THE ODLEST RELIGION IS BEING REMOVED FROM NEPAL. AND NO ONE IS BOTHERED? SICKENING.

Do you know what troubles start if this happens.
PLEASE ALL WAKE_UP AND SEND A STRONG MESSAGE TO THE CORRUPT & CROOK POLITICIANS IN NEPAL.

WE WANT NEPAL TO REMAIN HINDU!!!!!!!!!!

SPEAK EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my last words on the issue of why Nepal needs to be a "secular state".

----------------------------

"Hindu Nepal" is a demand of the India-based fundamentalist orgs and Hindus as well as their stooges in Nepal (palace sympathizers, bharat Keshari, Nepal chapters of VHP and Shiva Sena). These orgs and Hindus affiliated to them are bigots and supremacists.
Discredited Jaswant Singh of India was quoted saying: "I was hurt by the statement to the effect that Nepal is a secular Nepal". And why not? "Hindu Nepal" gives these India-based orgs and Hindus a lever to influence political/cultural/economic happenings in Nepal. Many people on Sajha are playing right into their hands. I do not see Nepali Hindus out on the streets asking the House of Reps to retract their statement about "Nepal going secular." But we hear about India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs and Hindus being pissed! When they know that their chances of meddling in tomorrow's Nepal are grim, they cry foul. The sooner Nepal distances itself from their polluted clutches, the better it is for all concerned. Nepal has to come out of the shadow of "Indian Hindu Fundamentalism."

That Hindus treated other religions okay under "Hindu Nepal" seems fine to an extent. But my beef (pun intended) is not against the Hindus but rather against the Hindu state. In the past, the state foisted a "Hindu" regime on its peoples. Was that decision ever put to a vote? Hell no! Well, what's wrong with scrapping the "Hindu state" tag, since it was not legitimate to begin with? If it can be institutionalised without a vote, it, too, can be removed without a vote! The SPA did the right thing. It was not an anti-Hindu act on their part! It was their response to people’s call for “Samabeshi loktantra.” Certainly, “Secular Nepal” is a necessary but not a sufficient condition to making “loktantra” more inclusive.

Most recently, the palace-appointed government doled out money to Bharat Keshari's Hindu org as well as patronised many Hindu institutions to strengthen the hold of autocratic rule. It is these fundamentalist Hindus who strengthened King Gyanendra's autocratic rule - which is why he was always been keen on visiting Hindu congregations and temples and wasting money from state coffers than building roads and bridges – key demands of the people he met? Why should the taxes gotten from people of all religious hues go exclusively to Hindu institutions and Sanskrit schools? This is unfair, and this is offensive to the people of all religious hues, including reform-minded Hindus. Why do you think the India-based Hindu orgs and Hindus (as well as their stooges in Nepal) are demanding that Nepal be re-declared a "Hindu state"? Then they get funding from Nepali government - which only strengthens their hold over Nepal as well as their false-God-king. You think the Nepali people, including the enlightened Hindus, are willing to believe in the “mandate of heaven”. “Secular Nepal” is all about separation of separation of religion and state.

Do you think all this state money strengthens Hinduism's appeal or sanctimony? Think again! These fundamentalists or the Hindu state don't care about Hinduism - the Hindu state cares about using the followers of Hinduism as vote banks to stay in power by throwing some bread crumbs at them! This is a pork-barrel approach! This is misuse of state treasury. This can only happen under "Hindu state" and will continue to happen if "Secularism is not institutionalized soon enough."

Where did all the state monies given to fundamentalist Hindu orgs, who were all to eager to roll out the red carpet for autocratic king, go? Of course, into the pockets of the leaders of fundamentalist Hindu organisations!

The Kathmandu hilltop Hindu shiva lingas and tridents are crumbling. Pashupati Nath, like the supposedly holy Bagmati, continues to give off strong stenches of chakribad, greed, misuse of fund, mismanagement, etc. Dalits are fleeing from Hinduism. Christianity is on the rise! Even Hindus are fleeing Hinduism. Father Sharma and Father Upadhya give sermons as pastors in makeshift churches across Nepal! This is a triumph of “free will” over "pre-determinism".

The Christians have been successful in raising rural/semi-rural literacy! They have empowered people sufficiently that the latter have agitated against their exploitative Hindu jamindars. Don’t give me that crap about Christian missionaries doling out cetamol (that’s a standard cliché) - these Christians are actually empowering people! This is Christian aid put to good use.

Well when the Hindu state gives out money of its own peoples exclusively to fundamentalist Hindu orgs and Sanskrit schools (which can only happen under "Hindu Nepal") you keep mum, but when it is the Christian aid (other people's money) being put to good use, you suddenly have problems with Christian missionaries! You guys are hypocrites! At least we know the Christian approach is cleaner: they are not misusing state money (their money comes by and large from abroad) unlike the Hindu state. The Hindu state collects from people of all religious hues and gives it exclusively to Hindu institutions and Sanskrit Universitities! This is state-sanctioned discrimination!

When the people from other religious groups cried foul, the Supreme Court threw the case out citing "But you know what, this is a Hindu state". Don't give me that crap about how under “Hindu Nepal”, there have been no unequal treatment of other religions. “Harmonious coexistence” is a lie that the fundamentalist Hindus have been propagating! This is a lie we’ve been made to memorize from the textbooks that are a throw back to the Panchayati era.

Like I mentioned the Dalits are fleeing Hinduism as if they were fleeing a plague. Even Hindus are fleeing Hinduism. Talk about ‘harmonious coexistence.” There is no harmony within Hinduism itself. If there were “harmonious co-existence” among religions, would janjatis, dalits, Muslims, Chritians, enlightened women (who believe that patriarchy has been given protection by the Hindu state) who make up over half the Nepal’s population demand “samabeshi loktantra”, with “Secular Nepal” as one of their key agenda?

Mr Narayan Pokhrel, a reform minded homegrown Hindu, who actually begins to clean up the image of Hinduism is allegedly taken out by Bharat Keshari Singh’s group. And yet you clamor for "Hindu Nepal". Sorry guys, this will only strengthen Hindu fundamentalist forces even as they trample all over Hinduism (which they see as a means to an end) for their political gains.

Only by making "Nepal secular" will we deal a strong blow to the hold India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs and Hindus as well as their Sankarachayras (or their stooges in Nepal) have over the politics Nepal. When the state stops doling out money to fundamentalist Hindu institutions (as it did to Bharat Keshari's group) or giving them "protection money”, this will weaken the fundamentalist elements. The fundamentalists have already been considerably weakened, which is why India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs and Hindus (and their sympathizers from Nepal) are the ones raising hues and cries the loudest, not necessarily the Nepali Hindus. Thankfully, the fundamentalists’ cries are being drowned out by the pre-monsoon showers of Nepal.

Of course, in the short term, the fundamentalists, now wounded to the core, will try to cause problems, but they will soon expose themselves for who they are, if they already haven’t: supremacists, bigots and religious extremists all rolled into one!

Some sajha people's argument for why Nepal should stay a "Hindu state": Then they will be able to say to their foreign friends, "You know what, Nepal is the only Hindu state in the world", and feel good about saying this! Funny argument!

Secularism is the way to go! It is good for all religions, but mostly of all for Hinduism.

-----------------------------------

Karmapa,
>My last words on the issue

Running out of distorted facts and assumptions and like to repeat the same thing over and over again??

> "Hindu Nepal" is a demand of the India-based fundamentalist orgs and Hindus as well as their stooges in Nepal (palace sympathizers, bharat Keshari, Nepal chapters of VHP and Shiva Sena). These orgs and Hindus affiliated to them are bigots and supremacists.

dont make me laugh. You cannot justify and here you go play a blame for the fault of the fked up leader GPK. I think the above statement fits you better than anyone else..

>And why not? "Hindu Nepal" gives these India-based orgs and Hindus a lever to influence political/cultural/economic happenings in Nepal.

Assumptions, assumptions and more assumptions. Hindu organizations in India have little influence in the polity of Nepal versus the non-religious groups. The most influential one - Sitaram Yachuri who can change what the maoabdis think and want. Now you tell me who has more (negative) impact in Nepal, religious or non-religious groups??

Even though you have quoted some facts but they are highly distorted and most are assumptions. Here have it your way and believe it the way you want it..

I might answer later to show your distorted, misjudged and misguided your statements truly are..

Hinduism differs from Christianity and other religions in that it does not have a single founder–like that Jesus, Buddha, mohammad.

Here It goes the major religions of the world Ranked by Number of its followers: Christianity: 1.2 Billion, Islam: 1.3 Billion, Secular/Nonreligious: 1.1 Billion, Hinduism: 900 million, Buddhism: 376 million.

Look how Christianity is rising day by day. Sooner or later late Pope John Paul’s dream of turning Asia into Christianity wont be far distant dream, it is slowly gaining ground.
Hinduism is 900 million but I am sure that it has more than 1 billion followers, thanks to immense Christians and other followers of Yoga and thereby turning into Hinduism. Yes, Hinduism does not accept the conversion to their religion but it is only on theory.

Many christians who have been the avid followers of Yoga, a Hinduism physical and spiritual practice,established by great sage, Patanjali, are slowly turning themselves into Hinduism, esp in USA. Many yoga institutions being opened there are testimony to it.

Being Nepal secular country will profit mainly Christianity since they have the trend of coaxing the poor innocent to turn into their religion. They will be in full swing at this. I am afraid that many be in the distant future, Hindus will dwindle to few million.

To stop this disaster from happening, Hindus, esp from high caste shouldn’t look down upon the low caste ones, instead show compassion and amenity and hand of help to them and the government should give ear to this plight. Hindus worldwide should put their heads together to make good the loss of Hinduism exigency. Now the responsibility lies on young shoulder like yours.

if we are to argue on facts after facts and each of us claiming our facts to be this tread will never end... from what i see those who want hindu state are mostly afraid of change and those who want a secular state think that when had hindu state they were marginalized by bias policies towards hindu... but the main question is weather who is the mojority of the nation or the marginalization of the rest in the past, the question is all of you daughters and son of nepal want in the future not for yourselves alone but also others in nepal. the person whom will be standing beside you as nepal citizens.. your brothers, your sisters, your friends.... pls always don't think what others cannot have but rather what others can have together with oneself even with different views..there is/must be a common goal.wish within all of us for peace, progress and respect for all people of nepal!!!... and in this fools mind, i think secular state respects all. or you all to continue want claim of birth place of buddha and sita or mount everest is not nepal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lets work to keep this things together rather a word secular which in this tread hindus have said " hindu is secula ".. so to that hindus of nepal when you look at secular just imagine hindu and the rest see it as it... peace and best wishes!!!

sorry: it should be Christianity: 2.1 billion in above writing. i.e two times more than that of Hinduism.

Hindus in India do not feel the majority at all. There is a reason on why the BJPs and Shiva Senas exist in India. Even though India is a secular state the Muslim religion beliefs are the law for example any Muslim can marry many wives, it is not forbidden even though non-Muslims cannot do that. Muslims can still divorce by saying "talak" and that becomes valid in court and the husband does not have to prove anything else, his words will be the final verdict. Why does a secular country gives privilege to one minority only and grant its religious right versus majority has no say about their religious beliefs when it comes to law?
If this is the type of freedom we want for Nepal, where the majorities have no rights versus the minority I have nothing to say. If the people do not mind seeing the cow being butchered in their backyard, I have nothing to say. Now we will openly see other religions openly making fun of our gods as well.

SHIV and friends... why just because india has it, why nepal must have it.. futhermore all the bad things...??? try to be more positive... if you are concern for the women in nepal thats, good on you but in nepal be it what may be in the past or even now there are also not much rights for women. someone told me that in singapore also a secular state, muslim are not allowed to marry more then 2 wives... alll its citizen regardless of religion must follow state law!!! so you may like to check that out yourself for a better view of those who has better secular state and is this improving! about the cow understand it holy to many... but well what do you do when you watch TV or overseas???

correct sentence below:

someone told me that in singapore also a secular state, muslim are not allowed to marry more then 1 wife... all its citizen regardless of religion must follow state law!!!

I like to repeat myself so that you guys get it. besides this thread does not appear as one long continuous thread - it is broken up into segments (1,2,3,4,5,6) as that it has become quite long. so many new readers may not get a chance to read what I have to say, which is why is I am having to repeat myself.

this is my response to shiva.

These are not assumptions, my friend, these are my educated guesses, and you know what, these are becoming increasingly confirmed as I write this. India-based Hindu fundamentalist orgs and Hindus are the ones raising hues and cries over Nepal's secular status the loudest. The Indian papers have written that these Indian fundamentalists have threatened to kick out the Nepalis (including Hindu Nepalis) from their states, as will as shut down the border. Jaswant Singh's expressing 'feeling of hurt' is telling very telling.

You know what Shiva? I don't see the Nepali Hindus taking to the streets really.

Though some Nepali Hindus (and they are a minority) are ranting against the House of Reps' declaration to go secular on this Sajha thread, by and large the louder voices are emanating from India. Why? No point for guessing correctly. They know that they are gonna lose control over Nepal's politics (which is mixed with Hindu religion) as well as over Pashupati Nath Temple and other cash cows (yes pun intended) - eg. the Nepal State's largesses.

yeah right, you think Yachuri has influence over the maobadis? go ahead elaborate. let me hear you out. you have not said anything yet.

Shiva, you are right to point out that Indian Hindus are not a majority in India, which is why they are having to depend on an event happening in Nepal to whip up Indian Hindu Nationalism to stage a comeback to power in India. Don’t you get it? The BJP resides in pointlessness. Which shows how desperate their situation is becoming!

Hey Shiv, looks like you are envying Muslim males because they can marry up to 4 wives while all you can do is imagine their good luck and jerk off! Why don't ya convert to Islam - and do what they are doing? I have heard of some Aryal guy who converted to Islam in the Nepali Terai. The Kantipur had an article on the guy. He is probably married to four wives too – he is an example of the triumph of 'free will' over 'pre-determinism'. Who said you cannot convert?

So all I'm hearing here in the Sajha thread up to now is pretty funny:

* People are saying they hate "Secular Nepal" because they are losing their bragging right to say: "Nepal is the only Hindu country in the world" and feel good about themselves.

* People are saying that they hate "Secular India/Nepal" because Muslims can marry upto 4 wives while the Hindus have to satisfy themselves with only one [or else jerk off].

If this is the extent of the argument being put forward by my Sajhaite colleagues in favor of "Hindu state", I have no further comment.

Nepal is sajha forum for everybody from now on.

No more existence of rule of law. We rather prefer the principle ` Might is right`.

Now the SPA with Maoists have power and they can rule by their proclamation . Next is Maoists, the greatest winner by the use of SPA power, who will rule by their proclamation. Finally will come the turn of ultimate winner,India to proclaim that Nepal is part of India.

Before Nepali realise the fact that the wrong trend had started with their own power, it will be too late and the only option left will be to accept themselves as Indians.

" I don't see the Nepali Hindus taking to the streets really", mr karmapa--you seem so confident that Nepalese will let their grass grow under their feet. You will never see seculat state in Nepal as it will confine to only in black and white, no matter how much you and other people make hue and cry in support of secularism, its always be, 'Heads I win, tails you lose'.

wait till CA--you guys think with recent proclamation in House everything will be decided final. yes the declartion was in sync with the aspirations of the people, no doubt from my side. Wait, there is still lot to do, relentless bickerings beween maoists, parties and the rest shows where nepal is today--it seems all is done hastily without thinking the consequences esp on issue like hindu to secularism.

Democracy is about choices, about elections form which people makes but is it democracy for the majority only (referring to train of thought also)???…. this undermines the word democracy!!!!! Democracy is for all the population in a country.... in this case Nepal being secular state take care of all its people view in regards of religion and culture.

In terms of race, language and religion a country should be fair to all its people… AND IT SHOULD NEVER BE THE BASICS OR EVEN SLIGHTLY INVOLVED IN POLITICS OR NATION BUILDING!!!!!!!

Now we should be asking/demanding from the government (be interim or elected) for RIGHT health care, RIGHT work/professional needed now in Nepal including for the future and most importantly RIGHT EDUCATION. Allowing all people of Nepal to be empowered with the necessary skills/tools to work and develop Nepal. To cultivate RIGHT work ethnics, civic sense and considerations, not to look down on any from of honest work, etc… to give not only hope that if a person put in effort in one’s work, life long learning and living in peace and harmony then they can achieve what the want but also a guarantee and the citizen also know this to be true. Government should give value to all fields of work, to give value to people regardless of sex and not forgetting value to all religions…. which spells a good nation, in this case a Nepal which people of Nepal don’t have to look back to history to be proud but instead to the future!!!

ps: friend matyangro, hope you are not treating with violence???

Samuel Tamrat behind moves to declare Nepal secular
New York, 21 May: Imperialist Christians made heavy investments in declaring Nepal secular, National Janamanch reports quoting S J Shah.

The leadership was taken this time Samuel Tamrat, political advisor of US Secretary general Kofi Annan.

There was no mention of a secular state in the first draft of the proclamation by parliament.

Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala and Prachanda wouldn't have made an issue over it.

Tamrat convinced officials India and Nepal during his fortnight's tour of the two countries.

The Pope has congratulated Annan and specially Tamrat after Nepal was declared a secular state.

People’s News/BR


PLEASE READ THIS FOR NATIONAL INTEREST !

SORRY GUYS I HAD TO WRITE I AGAIN BEACUSE OF KARMAPA.
WELL U THINK SECULARISM IS RIGHT WAY TO GO FINE .BUT DO U BELEIVE IN DEMOCRACY THEN U SHOULD BELIEVE IN VOTE.PLEASE DON'T ITERATE SAME THINGS AGAIN AND AGAIN WE ALL GOT UR POINT
IF U BELEIVE IN DEMOCARACY THEN U SHOULD BE WILLING TO GO FOR VOTE .DON'T JUST ITERATE YA SECULARISM YA SECULARISM .U NEED TO ADMIT WHAT SPA DID WAS NOT RIGHT WAY TO GO.
AGAIN WHAT SPA DID WAS ANOTHER IMPOSED THING .SO FINE WITH SECULARISM .BUT WITH VERY HEAVY PRICE TAG .U WILL REGRET SUPPORTING THIS ISSUE IF U LEAST CARE ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE OF NEPAL.WHAT IS GOOD FOR HINDUS AND NOT TIME WILL TELL.THERE IS VERY HEAVY PRICE TO PAY FOR THIS DECISION BUT U JUST CAN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND!!!"MERO GORU KO BARAHI TAKA" U HAVE TO BE RIGHT.U JUST DON'T EVEN SEEM TO SEE FROM OTHER ANGLE .OK BUDDY U WIN .U WILL BE THE LOSER LATER.

HEY KARMAPA,

Nepal is considered one of the top most countries where there is religious harmony, because Nepal was a Hindu nation. Look at secular India --- how much religious intolerance is there. It is because India is secular. You will see the same in Nepal now. There will be lots of parties coming up on the basis of religion. Wait and see !

Nepal has been made secular by Samuel Tamarat. That is why this guy was in Nepal. There is a role of Americans and Europians who have poured their money to make Nepal secular so that Christianity which is alreayd spreading among the poor will spread more. It is not the wish of the Nepalese. I have seen people who are funded by them in villages of Terai as well as hills. Their whole purpose of being there is to spread Christianity. We have some land in Rupandehi where we sold some of our land to a young Nepali couple who had converted to Christianity. They were keeping 20 - 30 children in their home- all converted. When asked where they get the finances from - they told us they get it from europe and America.

HEY ONE MORE THING KARMAPA,
I AM SORRY TO SAY I AND PEOPLE FOR HINDU COUNTRY HASN'T BEEN CONVINED THOUGH U DID PUT GOOD POINT BEACAUSE I AND OTHERS ALSO EQUALLY GAVE U HUNDREDS OF REASONS WHY HINDU COUNTRY FOR NEPAL WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.SORRY, I COULDN'T CONVINCE U EITHER.GOOD LUCK !

Euta KETA
Those who don't learn are doomed ? Huh !! Ke ? Really ? hmm....If you cannot convince one person .. He he How the fuk are you going to convince the Mass ? he he Mr Smaaaty Pants !!
Peaceful coexistance in Hinduism ? he he YOU KIDDIN ME ? What about all that Riot between Hindus and Muslim rioting in India ? he heh !! HISTORICALLY PROVEN ? I THINK NOT.
Buddhists accept the fact that It came from Hinduism whereas Muslims don't. That is the main difference. ARABS and Israelis have been killing each other since the Biblical times. You are talking APPLES AND ORANGES KID !!
Hey I ADMIT I AM AN ATHEIST AT LEAST I AM NOT TRYING TO IMPOSE MY BELIEF UPON YOU. Whereas you seem to hell bent on proving Hinduism is the best way for Nepal. AND I AM NOT CONVINCED.

IMI,
Dude you are ofrgeting one big point. RELIGION IS MAN MADE...look around you. Do dogs have god ? Do trees believe in god ? WTF has religion got o do with wealth ? I am in peace and very happy with being an Atheist. Nah Nah Nah Religion is not the main reason our country didn't develope ? Huh !!! MAn that is one lame ass excuse. IT IS THE LAZY ASS PEOPLE OF NEPAL THAT WE ARE SO UNDERDEVELOPED.

I dont want to argue here on if it is good to be a secular state or not. But I found many people making their points based on the census number. They say only about 80% of the population is hindu according to latest census.

What this number means, here is the story. This sharp decline in hindu population in 2000/2001 census is due mainly to the mass 'anti hindu' and 'anti DASHAIN' movement waged by many non-hindu activists and Non-governmental organizations. There are many families whom I personally know, were hindus, follow all hindu rituals, festivals and beliefs, wrote some other religion in that census. So, the fall in number is reflection of mainly the 'anti DASHAIN' movement'. They are successful in their movement when looking from their perspective.

So, my belief is the number of people following hinduism in their living is far more ( i hope more than 90%). But, I dont claim Nepal have remained a hindu state. As Hinduism has enormous amount to power of restraints, in any secular-state having 99% of hindus, the rest 1% will not feel dominated.

Gamle STOP TALKIN JIBBERISH !! Wha's yo point ?

There has been 138 postings and 2169 visits so far on this thread and I haven't still been convinced with reasons why Nepal was declared a secular state and why it is better off so.
Now that it has already been done, I don't know how long it will remain so. People suspect Indian Hindus are against secularism because they have some political interest. Well, I don't know, in fact, I don't want to know. That's their business, will Nepal ever be a Hindu state again just because of their protest, may be.
Now, will Nepal be as peaceful as and as religiously tolerant as before? I hope.
But, omitting the Hindu state tag, making such a big decision just in the name of bringing change before executing any affirmitive actions and pushing the minorities up from their level is not a right decision to me.
May be I am not as educated as the policy makers and other voices here but I am consious and smart enough to see its impracticalness.

This is for Bathroomcoffee,
What is happening to you, man? Ever come up with your own lines and not comment on other people's view using curses and swearing to bring other people down? You know that there is no such thing as right or wrong in this world, don't you?
'One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.'
'One society's religion is other society's cult.'
It is never hard to pass comment but to come up with your own. I know you sound smarter than me but it is no good at all if it only means to attack satirically to other people if you don't make it your profession and earn some money with it.