No matter how bad it went, no matter how bad people made it look like, there is no alternative to democratic system. Yes, nepalese politicians didn't play well with it, however, democracy is the only way to lead the country towards where we ideally want it to go. Constitutional Monarchy is as absurd as it can get. Monarch supported by the country-fed so called RNA never abides by the constitution whatsoever. He manipulates the constitution and do everything that favors him. So the governing system has to go beyond the Monarch, a mere person and should treat all equally. I know, we failed with our democracy in the past ~15 years, but still we shouldn't quit. We must get rid off the monarch.
Gri has already challenged the political parties to choose one- either Monarchy or Democracy. I dont understand why political parties can't go straightforward with multi party democracy, I dont understand why they can't act FULL TIME to kick G and his roots out of where he is now.

. . . . and they take time as well. One needs to have patience to watch what unfolds. We have just taken a sharp turn, but thats all we have done, taken the turn. We need to see where this new path takes us. We need to give it time and if we see that this path is not the right one or the best one, THEN we can start our yelling and screaming. It will be much more credible then.

दोधारेज्यू,

तपाई साझाको जन्मकालदेखिकै पाठक हुनुभएको सुनेर साह्रै खुशि लाग्यो । अर्थोक भन्दा नि मैले मेरा विचार-वहस दोह-याई दोह-याई बेलीबिस्तार लगाईरहन नपर्ने भयो भनेर ।

यदि तपाई साझाको मौन पाठक मात्र नभएर लेखक समेत हुनुहुन्थ्यो भने मलाई खुसुक्क तपाईको छद्मनाम भन्नुस् न, मलाई पनि तपाईलाई नाना भाँतिका प्रश्नहरु सोधिरहन नपर्ने हुन्थ्यो नि ।

अब, तपाईले पछिल्लो खेप भन्नु भएको केहि चाखलाग्दो कुरातिर लाग्छु ।


>म नाममा भन्दा काम/परिणाम मा विश्वास गर्छु।

वास्तवमा हामी अहिले 'नाम versus काम' को कुरा गरिरहेको नभएर बरु 'व्यक्ति versus पद्धति' को कुरा गरिरहेका छम् । तपाई व्यक्तिमा विश्वास गर्नुहुन्छ, म पद्धतिमा । कुरा त्यसो हो । अझ मलाई क्षमा गर्नु हुन्छ भने म त यसो पो भनुँला, तपाई व्यक्तिमा (महाराजधिराजमा) विश्वास पनि होईन बरु अन्धविश्वास पो गर्नुहुन्छ त । तपाई महाराजधिराजले मुलुकमा 'शान्ति र स्थिरता' ल्याईरहेका देख्नुहुन्छ, म उल्टो भईरहेको देख्छु । महाराजले जेजति कुराहरुमा 'सुधार' ल्याईबक्सिदै छ फेब्रुअरी यता, म बाजी ठोक्न सक्छु, ती सब कुराहरु महाराज जाने बित्तिकै उल्ट्याईनेछन् । त्यसलाई स्थिरता भन्नुहुन्छ कि अस्थिरता ?

तपाईले महाराजले माओवादीलाई कमजोर पारिदिएको दावी गर्नु भो । तर सारा दुनियाँ (महाराजका भाईभारदार छाडी र माओवादीका घोर शत्रुहरु समेत) त्यसको उल्टो दावी गरिरहेछन् । खै तपाईले के देख्नुभो, तर माओवादीहरुको शानसौकत र morale यो भन्दा उच्च बिन्दुमा कहिल्यै थिएन । सारा दुनियाले देखे, राजतन्त्रको बारेमा उनिहरुले भनेको कुरो पुग्यो, महाराजधिराजले उनिहरुलाई साचो साबित गरिदिएर ठूलो गुण लगाईबक्स्यो । अब गणतान्त्रिक क्रान्ति बाहेक अरु कुरा हुन नसक्ने स्पष्टै छ र राजनैतिक पार्टीहरुले त्यसलाई आफ्नो एजेन्डा छिट्टै बनाउन सकेनन् भने सम्पूर्ण कमीकमजोडीको बावजुद माओवादीले जनक्रान्तिको नैतिक नेतृत्व हत्याउन सक्ने देखिन्छ । यस्तो अवस्था सिर्जना गरेर महाराजले कसरी माओवादीलाई कमजोर पारे त्यो तपाई मात्र जान्नुहुन्छ ।

यो बाहेक कुन 'शान्ति र स्थिरता' को कुरा गर्नु भा हो तपाईले, त्यो मलाई थाहा भएन ।

अब तपाई र म आंशिक रुपमा सहमत भएको कुरा पट्टि लागौं ।

तपाईले राजनैतिक पार्टीहरुको हालसम्मको नेतृत्व भ्रष्ट र अक्षम भएको र त्यसको ठाउँमा नया नेतृत्व आउनुपर्ने आवश्यकता औंल्याएर वास्तवमा आजको सबभन्दा पहिलो, सबभन्दा महत्वपूर्ण र अनिवार्य राजनैतिक एजेन्डालाई उठाउनुभयो ।

यसमा आवश्यक जोड दिन हेतु म फेरि दोह-याएर भन्छु यो आजको सबभन्दा पहिलो, सबभन्दा महत्वपूर्ण र पर सार्न हुँदै नहुने राजनैतिक एजेन्डा हो ।

यो त राजालाई घुँडा टेकाउनतिर लाग्न भन्दा पनि पहिले गरिसक्नु पर्ने कुरा हो । (किनभने राजालाई घुँडा टेकाउन नसकिएको प्रमुख कारण नै त्यहि हो, अरु कुरा त के भनिरहन परो र )

तपाईलाई विदितै हुनुपर्छ, गणतन्त्र सम्बन्धी मेरो एउटा प्रमुख बहस रहिआएको छ, राजनैतिक पार्टीहरुको वैचारिक र सांगठनिक दुवै तहमा पूर्ण लोकतान्त्रिकरणको जरुरी । तपाईले पनि नयाँ नेतृत्वको आवश्यकताको कुरा गर्नु भयो, मैले पनि त्यहि कुरा गरिरहेको छु । तर फरक कति भने म यसलाई एउटा गन्हाएको व्यक्ति हटाएर अर्को सुकसुकाउँदो राख्ने एक?पटके घटनाको रुपमा होईन वरु त्यस्तो कुरा नियमित र सहज रुपमा हुने आन्तरिक लोकतन्त्रको पद्धति तत्काल स्थापना गरेर गर्नुपर्ने रुपमा लिन्छु । नत्र अर्को जोगी पनि कानै चिरेको रहेछ भने मारेन ?

अहिलेसम्म नेकपा र नेका दुबैमा 'आन्तरिक राजतन्त्र' चलिरहेको छ । वास्तवमा मुलुकको लोकतान्त्रिक क्रान्ति र पार्टीहरुको आन्तरिक लोकतान्त्रिक क्रान्ति समानान्तर विषयहरु रहेछन् भन्ने कुरा बल्ल आएर स्पष्ट हुँदैछ ।

पार्टीहरुमा आन्तरिक लोकतान्त्रिक क्रान्तिको लागि चारैतिरबाट सकारात्मक र विपरितात्मक दुवै खाले दबाबहरु परिरहेका छन् । म आँखा झिमिक्क नगरी हेरिरहेको छु । लामो समयको क्रोनिक निराशापछि म केहि किरणहरु देखिरहेको छु । हेर्दै जाम । केहि सिप लागेन छ भने बोकिन्छ बन्दूक । भगवानले नगरुन त्यस्तो अवस्था आओस् ।

Still no time to engage in a lengthy debate, thus excuse me DODHARE-ji!

Ashu,

I say DITTO to your latter half. I have said it before, and I will say it again, we are in a dire need for a cultural revolution. But then again, that process -- lengthy and difficult as it may be -- cannot even be begun unless we have a BASIC democratic framework intact. Closed and narrow society under autocratic regime will only provide for stronger obstacles to changes.

Iraq...later!

Anil i have a question - so you know it all..the past present and future..and you know that you have only 10 or max 15 years of time in your hand..after that we'll all be old and senile like Gyane..so how constuctively or effectively are you plaaning to use this 10 -15 yrs that you have...??? I say KILL the bastardd!!!

On Iraq, my position is probably closer to Ashu than to Anil, however Ashu's lecture on check and balance and other aspects of democracy baffles his long standing stand on accepting the institution that is above-the-law in Nepal as the ultimate reality of Nepal.

What is happening with Ashu ? Is he changing or is it just a temporary lapse of judgment on his part ?

शहरको नामूद शराबीलाई मस्जिदमा देखेपछि प्रार्थनाधिपतिले सोधेछन्, "खान साहब, तपाई पनि यहाँ ?"

खान साहबले जबाफ दिए, "के गर्नु, मान्छे बिग्रिन कति बेर लाग्दो रहेछ र ।"

I have had a sore throat chanting democracy in sajha, but Girija would never give up his post. Seeing the same old figures in the parties' leadership till today and no signs of improvement, democracy for me appears being evaporated now, at least for a while.What the heck? These bunch of cowards could not dare to change themselves, neither could they accept the challenge to force maoists into dialogue. Could we expect anything better from these pathetic power mongers?

I will prefer to keep quiet unless Girija quits or dies.Once that happens, there will be newuser ready to give his blood, toil, tears and sweat against dictatorship. Long live democracy.

newuser,
you are finally talking some sense instead of just idealistic thoughts.

Newuser, Congratulations on your decision. It's better to focus on reality and see how we can work on democracy in the longer run, than build HAWA ko mahals on idealistic premises.

Welcome to reality.

We (Nepalese) should not worry about democracy and freedom.

Key and Major problem are Nepali crooks political leaders and government officials.

We needs organize manhunt revolution organization who can hunt and kill those crooks.

It will do or solve more than 95% our Nepalese problems.

Nepe asks:

"What is happening with Ashu ? Is he changing or is it just a temporary lapse of judgment on his part?"


Nepe, NOTHING is happening to or with me.
I remain today what I was yesterday.

The fundamental difference between you and me is this:

You see things in black and white.
I see them in color.

Based on that difference, here is how you and I interpret the world.

Seeing things in black and white allows you to feel that you are very clear about what is good for everyone. And that certainty makes you feel bold to start calling names to others or making (false) assumptions about people who do NOT see things your way.

Seeing things in color allows me to accept different and disagreeable viewpoints as additional data-sets that need to be factored into my decisions/judgment.

You can't imagine working together with people who do NOT share your politics.
This makes you one-politics-fits-all sort of an ideologue.

I remain politics-neutral so long as what gets defended are principles. This makes me able to work on a CASE-By-CASE basis with even those who are my (political)
opposites. And, compared to you, that makes me a pragmatist.

You appear to hate ambiguities, ambivalence, nuances and complexities when it comes to propounding a particular political philosophy.

I revel in all that messiness; while tossing and turning and agonizing over them before reaching a decision after having a brutal yet non-personal contest-of-ideas in my
mind or with my friends.

I don't know who your role-models are when it comes to making decisions that require interpretation of available evidence and balancing that with judgement.

Mine are many -- among them a few of the US Supreme Court Justices. [And speaking of that, I do hope that John Roberts, who strikes me as an excellent candidate who is
likely to decide issues on a CASE-by-CASE basis, gets confirmed soon.]

So, in summation?

You see things in black and white.
I see them in color.

As the song goes, in its non-romantic strain:
"Hamee nadi ka dui kinara . . ."

oohi
ashu

Anil wrote:

"I have had opporutnities aplenty to interact with Nepalis from Nepal too in the past few months. Some have been high profile members of the Nepali intelligentsia, others have been low-level commuinty leaders, yet others were ordinary Nepalis."

I am assuming that you met these folks mostly at pro-democracy campaigns and therefore it is likely that they are people with political biases. What about those millions of Nepalis back home -- the quintessential Nepalis -- living a hand to mouth life under grinding poverty and who are affected the most by maoist barbarities - to whom makiing it to America is a distant dream?! Something to chew over...

"Here, what would be appreciated would be SPECIFIC EXAMPLES as to why I am so, rather than merely saying something along the lines of, "Well, you are wrong because you don't live here."

Good grief! The examples are ubiquitous! They are bursting at the seams even a blind can see them.

"I also feel somewhat uneasy with the thought that you -- an anonymous poster in Sajha -- may or may not be living/working in Nepal yourself. You could be accusing others of not living/working in Nepal just for the sake of an argument."

Rest assured I do live in Nepal.


Sure, we can debate about what might be the best way forward for Nepal till we are blue in the face - however, being a realist that I am, at the end of the day, what I really want to see is the results and not 'ifs and buts' and more theories.

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country but maoist activities have definiitely diminished in towns and villages alike in Tanahun, Syangja, Palpa and to some extent in Lamjung. You don't find maoists moving around openly as they used to only a few months back. They seem to have disappeard into the thin air which is quite baffling.. And yes, that's good enough to me. Lets give the King credits where they are due, shall we?

That said, yes, the maoists are trying really hard to retaliate by destroying infrastructures and declaring strikes from time to time but they are increasingly becoming ineffectual. Slowly but surely the maoists are feeling the heat. I think that is also the reason why the maoists are yearning to team up with the parties.

I think when we debate or look into an issue, it has to be put in a proper context.

The way I see it; it was the primeminister who dissolved the parliament in 2002. It isn't the King's fault if the parties cannot hold elections - and, yes, they themselves admitted it. So, technically, democracy was already dead. The parties really have no one but themselves to blame for the disaster that has befallen our country. The parties could neither hold elections nor improve the security situation in the country. In the meantime the country was fast plunging into absolute chaos while the people meekly witnessed the unfolding events in the country in absolute horror.

I don't see how restoring the same inept leaders back to power is going to solve the myraid problems plaguing the country.

The king stepped in at the eleventh hour. I see him as our saviour. I know some people don't even need a reason to hate him. He is hated for the simple reason that he is a King!
I don't think he is as wicked as he is made out to be or some people would have us believe.

As far as the curbing of freedom goes.. Look, a stray bomb goes off in London, and the British are already contemplating granting sweeping powers to law enforcement agencies et al. When governments are dealing with insurgency and terrorism or security threats; civil liberty becomes its first casualty. 9/11 -- a one-off terrorist act -- happened four years ago but the Patroit Act is still in place - and I don't see it being scrapped any time soon. Nepal is grappling with a situation far worse than in any of these countries.

That said, you would think that things are really bleak in terms of freedom back home. In reality, that's hardly the case. Even as I rack my brains I can think of only two bans: 1. Ban on pre-paid mobile phones, and 2. Ban on news broadcasting by FMs.
Other freedoms -- personal and economic -- are largely intact. As for media censorship, the media is full of pro-parties, pro-netas jingles - hardly a sign of censorship.

Oh well.. what do I care..

Aha, good to see that the verbal battle between the Idealists and Realists is still going on full fledged. By the way newuser, congratulations from my side as well on your realization about reality, which is pretty bleak but it is better than living in a make believe, idealistic world.

Lokman, I like your realistic views.

नाउं चाहिं लोकमान, काम चाहिं स्तुति गान, कि तँपाई लोकमान सिंह कार्की त होईन । पार्टीले जे जति गल्ति गरेनि घोक्रे ठ्याक लगाउने जनता हुन। राजाले धेरै नै गल्ति गरिसके, राजाको नचाईमा शेरे पर्‍यो, एमाले पर्यो, अहिले चाहिं दरवारियाले राजाले पहिलो गल्ति गरेको होईनन त्यसैले राजालाई दोषारोपण गर्न पाईंदैन भन्दैछन । अब तिमीहरू टेक्निकल मिस्टेक गर्यौ त्यसैले आबु देखि मै राज गर्छु, जनाताको सार्वभौम सत्ता म चलाऊंछु, पिटर गिरी, जगत गौचन, र अरु गह्नाएका नपुंसक मन्त्रीहरुको लिडरसिपमा म आफ्नो मन खुसी गर्छु, प्रजाहरु तिमीहरु टुलुटुलु हेरेर बस्नु भन्दा हामी चाहि चाहि हो हो, शेरेले गल्ती गर्‍यो त्यसैले हामी राजाले जे भन्यो तेही मान्नु पर्छ भन्ने के कर हँ ? यस्ता राजालाई त डांडो नकटाईकन हुंदै हुंदैन ।

ज्ञानेन्द्र-पिटर गिरी, प्रचण्ड-बावुराम, गिरिजा-माकुने मा , गिरिजा-माकुने नै जनाताका नजिक छन्, गिरिजा-माकुनेको नाम मात्र परिवर्तन भएर गगन-राजेन्द्र हुन सक्छ, ज्ञानेन्द्र-गिरी को चाहि परिवर्तन भएर पारस-निक्षय होला, त्यसैले म चाहिं गिरिजा-माकुने नै चुज गर्छु ।

गिरिजा-माकुने को ठाऊमा, शेरे,वामदेव, रामचन्द्र, केपी, जो कोहि पनि पहिले नै आइसकेका छन।

नेता जनताले चुन्छ, राजा सेतो हात्ति हो, पारस शाहलाई हामीले कहिले पनि बिर्सन हुन्न ।

Ashu,

Don't be hypocrite. Your entire thinking in Sajha has been absolutely unambiguous to DISMISS republicanism and to be FREINDLY to monarchy. It's crystal clear, my friend.

Yes, VERBAL ambiguity has been your signature in Sajha. But it's just that, VERBAL AMBIGUITY.

When it comes to your position regarding republicanism/monarchy, you are unambiguous and crystal clear. Throughout your active life in Sajha, you have been consistently and continuously cursing the republicans and republicanism and at the same time calling upon all to accept the monarchy as the ultimate reality of Nepal.

When a person is unambiguous in thinking but ambiguous in saying, it is clear that he is trying to fool others. Unfortunately, people who try to fool others are actually fooling themselves.

wow! the royalists are celebrating here for me? As if I have ratified their lord's dictatorship. HELL NOT.

I am a disenchanted democrat who believes on the inevitability of transformation of political parties first. Then follows the revolution that sweeps the monarchy away. For Gyanendra's mercy, the political leaders have behaved so cowardly. God knows why they are scared to talk to the maoists. Pray Pashupatinath that they will remain to be coward and let your lord continue his mad wrath.

Democrats, are you listening to me? Our adversaries are celebrating the cowardice of political leaders. Do you think I can tolerate Girija's dictatorship in Congress party while being so critical of Gyanendra's dictatorship? Never. Full democracy will never materialise unless the parties democratize themselves. Beware! Oppurtunity is slipping away.

Newuser because of lack of leaders, right now, at this point, only the king has saved Nepal from becoming a state of ANARCHY. Of course, democracy is ideal scenario, but you have to be realistic.

Even you agree that there are same old politicians and things are not gonna change. Once there are better politicians who will be able to lead the country then we dont' need the King. Right now we need the king. If not anything else, only for saving the country from anarchy.

जाँठो राजाले के के न गर्?या जस्तो, जगते, निरन्जन थापा, हाइकमान्डमा शरद चन्द्र जस्ता बाँदर, अनि राजाले ठिक पार्छ देश ? काठमाण्डौमा माओले हान्न थालिसक्यो, राजाले एनार्कि हुन नदिने रे। साला यो राजासँगै तिनका भारदारलाई पनि सिद्दयाउनु पर्छ अनि बल्ल देश ऊंभो लाग्छ ।

यो थ्रेडमा दुई जना महानुभावले महाराजधिराजले माओवादीलाई परास्त गर्दै लगेको दावी गरेको देखें । दिनदिनै समाचारहरुमा माओवादीहरुको सक्रियताका जेजस्ता समाचार सुन्नमा आउँछन्, तिनलाई एकछिन पन्छाएर यी महानुभावहरुका रिपोर्ताज लै विश्वास गर्न कोशिस गरम है त ।

भनेसी चमत्कारै भयो, हैन त ?

सम्पूर्ण प्रतिकुलताको वावजुद त्यसो हुनु चमत्कार नभए के त ?

अब प्रतिकुलताकै कुरा गरम न,

पहिलो, माओवादीलाई सैनिक रुपले सखाप पार्न सकिन्छ भनेर आजसम्म कसैले भनेको सुनिएको थिएन । मुलुकका र विदेशका सैनिकशास्त्री, कुटनीतिज्ञ, सरकार-प्रमूख मात्र होईन शाही सेनाकै केही जर्सापहरुले समेत माओवादीलाई सैनिक रुपले सखाप पार्न नसकिने पो दावी गरिरहेका थिए ।

दोश्रो, अहिले महाराजले राजनैतिक पार्टीहरुलाई माओवादीसंग नयाँ गणतान्त्रिक गठबन्धनको सम्भावनाको नजिकै पु-याईदिएर माओवादीलाई नैतिक रुपले झन् शक्तिशाली बनाईदिएको पर्यवेक्षकहरु देखिरहेका छन् ।

तेश्रो, हातहतियारको विदेशी श्रोत खतम भएर शाही सेनाले अब स्वदेशमै धनु-काँड र भालाको उत्पादन गर्ने योजना बनाईरहेको घोषणा शाही सेना स्वयंले गरेको रात कट्न पा छैन । संभवत: आधुनिक हतियारहरुको बाँकि रहेको थोक नारनहिटीको सुरक्षाको लागि मात्र पुग्छ (यो कुरा बेग्लै हो, बेला आएसी कुनै हतियारले पनि जोगाउन सक्तैन नारनहिटीलाई ) ।

यी सब कुराको वावजुद माराजका सेनाले माओवादीलाई पेल्दै लगिरहेको छ भने माराजमा दैवी शक्ति अवश्य छ ।

आच्चे के कुरा ग-या मैले, माराज स्वयं विष्णुको औतार होईनन् र ?

माराज, हजुरको दैवी शक्तिको बयान हजार जिब्रा भएका शेषनागले ता गर्न सक्तैनन् भने लोकमान र दोधारेज्यूले ता कति नै गरे होलान् र । यस्ता प्रचण्ड पर्तापी माराजलाई यो तुच्छ जीवको कोटीकोटी नमस्कार ।