who watched or listened to the debates last night?

First of, I am a liberal who believes that illegals need to be booted out of America and our borders sealed, since it is quite widely believed that Al Qaeda's new haven is Latin America. This might be a conservative stance, but so be it. Furthermore, India doesn't concern me even a bit. I care more about what's happening in America than show loyalty to some distant land I have zero connection with. I would feel the same, even if jobs were being outsourced to Nepal.
America was founded on the idea of checks and balances, and as we speak, Republicans outnumber democrats in the congress. Hell, even the supreme court is more conservative than republican, and with Bush winning the election, some of the newly instated supreme court justices will be republican-leaning, and therefore tip the balance in favor of the republicans even more than today's conservative-leaning supreme court. The ramifications of this scenario are enormous. So, we can't afford Bush's second term. Remember, chief justice Rehnquist is highly conservative, and in fact was in favor of segregation once upon a time. So, having said that, I cannot support republicans.


Republican, lying and misleading are two different concepts. As articulated in the book Plan of Attack by Bob Woodward, the CIA people had warned the Bush administration not to include in his state-of-the-union speech the assertion that Saddam had tried acquiring aluminum tubes from Niger, which as we know by now was based on faulty intelligence. Republican, because the "slam dunk" quote is from Bob Woodward's book, which I assume you have read since you quoted the phrase, you must also be cognizant that Bush had planned the deposition of the leader of Iraq right after that fateful day of 9-11. In November of that year, the Bush administration was searching for ways to squeeze in Iraq in order to make it seem like Iraq had something to do with 9/11. There are subtle ways to mislead the American people. Why else would approximately 50% think Iraq had something to do with 9/11?? Subtlety is the key here, because not every Tom, Dick and Harry follows politics closely.

Whether or not the oil-for-food program will incriminate France and Russia, Kerry is better because he will start with a clean slate, and will be a better communicaator in bringing international community together in order to win the Iraq debacle. That's the bottomline.

Plus, check the new poll out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6159637/site/newsweek/

Bush was like a deer in the headlights on Thursday. Before the debates, Kerry was portrayed as a flip-flopper and what not, but face to face, Kerry had the opportunity of correcting all mischaracterizations, and he did so thoroughly. Bush had his ass handed to him on Thursday. Expect the same next week.

* I am a liberal who believes that illegals need to be booted out of America and our borders sealed*
Thugged out, well narrated but Illegals (Hispanic community in specific) are invading US ? If all ýso-called illegalsý leave, US could do with 'shut-down US'! Accept it.

Google found no such thing as Bush's intelligence? He is a big-flat-liar. He makes up his own words, forgets the last thing he said and then makes up something to contradict that he didn't say that. US is worthy of better. How could anyone root for a man who was making a lame joke like , "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere," as he showed a picture of himself looking for something out a window in the Oval Office. Pathetic! There's a fine line between, "I can laugh at myself," and "I just don't give a damn." "Isn't it time US had a real President again? John F Kerry for President." Not sure if only Bush is behind all these substandard causes or if he's just a puppet, its grimy the way Bush is reasoning for going to the war being hypocritical and pretextual. He has the tact of a stink beetle. Personally, I can't take him, his policies and his sycophants.

From the sound of it, republicans are so aggressive in their doings, democrats are defensive ! President Bill Clinton left office with the longest boom in US history still intact with the legacy of a huge and growing budget surplus. Look at the US economy now! Bushýs WMD = White Man's Death, honkies!

My two cents, Ashley!

Republican and JB, You are no different than some of my collegues at work. You republicans live in denials and don't open up your mind to accept constructive criticisms given by people who don't agree with you. For those who say John Kerry doesn't have a plan of his own, just go to www.johnkerry.com and read his 250 pages plan to rescue America from Bushies mess.

i dont even think its imp. to disscuss in this issue, i cant vote and even if i cud, for sure my vote isnt going to be counted...but dont get me wrong, if i cud vote, i WUD CERTAINLY VOTE...anywaz..both guys are evil, and both of their policies sux when talking abt foreign affarias..

ooh yah, guys interested in kicking out illegal hispanics, u sud watch this movie called, "A day without mexicans" good movie...

later guys :)

This is a long post sorry ....but it has many important facts....

Pisces, if u don't know......if I am concerned about woment's right in Nepal....then being in america doesn't make me less concerned! I know u don't care what women go through because u aren't a woman and these things affect me 'cause I am a woman silly! I know u will never understand either.....so I don't expect u to understand with that tory brain of yours!Do u know what's going back to 1940s means?? Then I will answer!

Republican and Jagaltay bhoot, here is my response to your queries! BUSH II is the copycat of previous republican administrations.....how can u say that BUSH isn't responsible for Iraq. They know exactly what they are doing. Do u remember it's the same person the famous"Rumsfeld" who was active even in 80's and and even now in this administration!! See the connection.... BUSH is just a puppet, all this traditional countryboy can say is "good or evil" ,the real country runner and master planners are Dick Chenney, Rumsfeld, Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, Perle...and some more! the blueprint of what has happened since 9/11 was drawn years ago, by the Project (PNAC) a think tank.....who were the founders? Those guys I mentioned above. This is a blueprint for world domination. Actually there was a five year plan...beginning with Iraq, syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, Sudan. Republic u said, "there is no proof BUSH lied".....everybody knows the famous words of BUSH when he told Ameica about the connection between 9/11 and SADDAM"! BIG LIE!

Do u know some of the reasons why BIN LADEN is attacking US? Nobody knows and cares about it. Nor our leader has brought it to the open discussion nor the media (controled by government)has. U can't see any discussions from opposting views, So nobody knows why! Shoudln't that be the first question right after IRAQ? One of the reason BIN was angry was 'cause US wanted to control Saudi Arabia by installing its government and BIN wanted a muslim government to remain!

Now why would they attack IRAQ? It's for three reasons....it's was a distraction from Afganistani war 'cause they couldn't find BIN LADEN, secondly for more than 10 years....US is eyeing to take over IRAQ for their oil and the most importantly the oil of other surrounding countries... U.S and UK are beginning to run out of secure hydrocarbon energy supplies. By 2010 the Mulsim world will control as much as 60% of the world's oil producation and 95% of remaining global oil export capacity. So demand for it is increasing so supply is decreasing. US wants to secure oil supplies.....and thirdly it's to show the world don't contend with us otherwise u will have the same result! Republican mentioned about how France and Germany taking advantage of UN-food-oil money....how about already proven illegally selling chemicals to other countries all the time? US has a much more fattttterr wallet baby! No left wingers think that saddam was a pope....u are wrong in this....he was a barbarian like so many other leaders who doesn't know that? But this war wasn't about catching the barbarians and killing innocent people ( americans didn't wanted catching barbarians as an iminent wish)but to catch BIN LADEN! Who is responsible for 9/11 bin or SADDAM?

About the US supporting Afganistan during the Russian war was for US' benefit. T"his war was targeted to draw the Russians into the Afghan trap." first by secret operations that would force Russians to invade Afganistan. Russians were US's major enemy so they were using Al-qaidas to get back on Russia. The war affected Afganistan for 2 full decades full of terror and civil war.The same trained group brought forth the "India-pakistan coflict too.

Did u know that there was a warning that if US attacks IRAQ there is "pretty high" chance that IRAQ would use the WMD (if they had one), even pentagon, FBI alarmed about it.Terrorists could get a hold of it. Did this government care? NOPE! They have their own other desire and goals to take over IRAQ! So much to that they take threats seriously.........

Republican government favoured , supported, helped notoriously cruel barbarians like south african ally(killled 1.5 million...850,000 infants),Ferdinand Marcos,Indonesian Suharto, Ceausescu....etc even knowing that they are killing millions.....now they want to save the world! It's complete nonsense! they are more concerned about 1% of rich elite people of US than poor. Now remember, after US attacked IRAQ 90s, they assigned SADDAM again to the power...why?? knowing that he is a brutal killer!

US is against terrorism and WMD ???? And u say US's friendly relation (past)with SADDAM deosn't count now then why is US is referring to the chemicals that Saddam used in the past?That was the reason they went to war(according to the present BUSH II) US didn't care when Saddam was terrorizing people then and they are against terrorism finally after supporting all the dictators in the world? USA is the only country in the world who has used Nuclear weapon(form of WMD) so far in Japan completely destroying two cities.They obviously wants to be a SUPERPOWER and rule world.Why only superpowers can do whatever and not other countries???

ha ha ha ha ha

JB and Republican, Just look at this picture and imagine replacing the face with one of your relatives there. Why did the US have to do it? Pictures speak louder than words..

.

thik ho.

Wow, this thread is still going strong after 2 days :)

I have no hesitation in admitting that I benefitted from some views of thuggedout and republican and others as well. My respect for that.Sorry that I havent had the opportunity to read most recent posts here.

As far as Iraq war is concerned, I respect some of your views that Iraq war was illegitimate but I still find it legitimate. I believe, the fact is laid out on the table and our view whether it was legitimate or illegitimate depends upon from which angel we look at it.

Thanks to you all and thanks to democracy.

Cheers

KG4MVP, nobody's criticizing me here, so there's no question of living in denial. We are merely expressing our opposing views here. As for that picture, it is easy to blame the US for every terrorist act that is happening in Iraq right now. That car bomb was planted by terrorists, so what do you mean by "Why did the US have to do it?" Granted, the US army is reponsible for some civilian casualties, but because people want to blame the US for everything nowadays, these terrorists are getting away lightly even after killing their own fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims. What can you say about people who kill even their own in the name of religion?

Btw, it is pretty clear that Kerry won't cut and run out of Iraq, so don't pin your hopes on him ending this war if he becomes President. I am glad Kerry recognizes that this war has to be fought for the long run. Left-wing fanatics will not get their way even if Kerry wins this election.

Kerry is definitely not going to cut and run, but as they say judging from Bush's failed business ventures, he never has learned to clean up the mess he creates. Bush created the Iraq mess; someone else needs to clean it up for him.

Furthermore, another issue is the draft. When Wolf Blitzer interview Howard Dean yesterday, Dean claimed that after talking to some local selective service workers, it seems like the draft is going to be reinstated. I am not into tin foil hat theroies, but I don't have any doubt in my mind that the military is currently overextended, one of the reasons why we're not sending any more troops to Iraq. Samarra, of all places had to be cleaned up of insurgents, for crying out loud! Bush will of course deny it vehemently, but Murphy's law tells me that without the draft, the only solution would be to pull back before the problem gets any worse. Only a year ago, the number of insurgents was 5000; the number now has quadrupled. What's the matter, Bush, your prescience that Iraq would be a cakewalk was dead wrong. It was more like a tarwalk--stuck in a quagmire and nowhere else to go, all thanks to the president who is incompetent at best.

September has been the second deadliest month this year, with April being the deadliest when more than 130 Americans kicked the bucket. Nobody can really claim that Iraq is successful, but turning tails ain't the way to go. It is paramount that we absolve Iraq of insurgents, else Iraq will be a hotbed for terrorists, much like Afghanistan used to be a few years ago. Better nip the problem in the bud. But truly, it's a very difficult journey ahead. If Bush thinks his job is hard, then it's better to drop Bush and pick a new, more able guy for President. The choices are clear. Vote John Kerry!

John Kerry ....... No Doubt.........

Yesterday Meet the Press brought this idiot who's running for senate seat as a republican in Oklahoma. The fruitcake believes that doctors who abort babies should face capital punishment. What a loose canon. What if the woman's been raped? This idiot's trying to make a wedge issue out of abortion, but he's failing miserably. He is trailing in the polls. Such dumb beliefs are extreme in red states too.

I wouldn't trust Howard Dean's word at all. And he provided such a lousy answer when Blitzer asked him about what he said in his book "Bill Clinton once told me it's better to be strong and wrong than weak and right. I believe that's true." He insisted that Bush doesn't have a clear position. Everybody knows that Bush is consistent. Whether he's consistently wrong or consistently right - that depends upon which party you support.

As John Kerry said it, you can be consistent and be wrong.
As I said before, flip-flopping is the hallmark of an intellectual.
Obstinacy is the hallmark of a dictator: Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein and now Bush all have this in common. The modus operandi is clear to me. Bush is of course democratically elected, but he works the same way.
Either that or Dick Cheney is really the real president. Word of advice republicans: cut back on the chickenhawks.

KoHoTyo,
Are you implying that Bush is a village idiot?

hey thugged out..awesome points... this government is trying to challenge science (stopping stem cell research) with its religious belief....there is at least some point to be that conservative. Just because countrywomen are against the abortion because of their beliefs doesn't mean others want the same. These neoconservatives can't see woman making her own choices and getting ahead. They want them to have tons of kids and stay home. They are cutting funding for clinics like "Planned Parenthoods" so that it will be impossible for them to provide contraceptives. They are against simple contraceptive like "condoms" too. They donot believe in sex education in high school instead they encourage kids not have sex before marriage..haha silly. Now who will follow this rule. The unavailability of contraceptives makes it even more dangerous of young people sexually involved. This government has acted so dumb man......do they think stopping clinics will stop women from getting abortion? Which is their basic right... It will be 60s again, when women went to the unprofessional doctors to get it done and tons of women died of infection. Do they care about women dying today after 6 seconds because they don't have proper abortion clinic? So stupid!

See sweetie pie these things does happen in US too.. Women are being discriminated here as well.. they are restricted to get basic rights, aren't they? Oh no no its not discrimination its just restriction, my bad..

Republican,
When I said "Why did the US have to do this?", any intelligent person of your caliber would understand what I was referring to implied to the whole mess that the Iraq war has created and the picture spoke the emotion for which you wouldn't find words to describe.
On the other note, I wll send you Ann Coulter's new book if you vote for Kerry. Though, we don't agree, at least it will make both of us happy.