Aright, where's sajha's Bob Marley (who stereotyped all Tibetans earlier as being murderers and only the white peeps who believe in Free Tibet)?  Anything negative to say on this, damn racist?  BTW, most/some of us here in sajha ain't Tibetan but defintiely do sympathize with their cause.

 

From the BBC news today:

The Dalai Lama is set to receive a Congressional Gold Medal, the top US civilian honour, later on Wednesday - a move which has infuriated China.

George W Bush will attend the ceremony in Washington, becoming the first sitting US president to appear in public with the exiled Tibetan leader.

Chinese state media warned it would "cast a shadow" over ties with the US.

Beijing has been accused of human rights abuses in Tibet, which its communist troops occupied in 1951.

Mr Bush met the Dalai Lama behind-closed-doors on Tuesday in the White House residence, rather than the Oval Office, out of deference to China. It was their third private meeting in six years.

'Gross interference'
But Wednesday's elaborate ceremony to honour the Nobel Peace Prize winner on Capitol Hill will be a much more public affair.
Beijing described it as a "gross interference in China's internal affairs".
"China is strongly resentful of this and resolutely opposes it," foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao was quoted by the official Xinhua news agency as saying on Wednesday.

An editorial in the official China Daily newspaper, titled "Wrong Move by the US," said: "This event will certainly cast a shadow over the relations."

A White House spokeswoman said on Tuesday Mr Bush understood Beijing's concerns.

But she added: "We would hope the Chinese leader would get to know the Dalai Lama as the president sees him - as a spiritual leader and someone who wants peace."

Beijing has long argued the Dalai Lama is seeking to destroy China's sovereignty by pushing for independence for devoutly Buddhist Tibet.

The 72-year-old insists he wants "real autonomy", not independence for the region, which Beijing claims is an "inalienable" part of China.

Balancing act
Analysts say it is a delicate diplomatic balancing act for Mr Bush, who needs China's help to manage nuclear standoffs with Iran and North Korea.
Meanwhile, China's Communist Party, which is holding its 17th Congress this week, is highly sensitive to potential embarrassment as it prepares to stage next year's Olympics.

US lawmakers regularly accuse Beijing of turning a blind eye to alleged human rights abuses in Burma and Sudan in its pursuit of energy and business deals.

Recently, world leaders have grown more vocal in their concern for human rights in Tibet.

In September, German Chancellor Angela Merkel met the Dalai Lama, incurring Beijing's wrath.

The historic Berlin meeting prompted China to withdraw from a German-Chinese symposium scheduled to be held in Munich and to cancel an annual event due to be held in Beijing in December to discuss human rights.

The Dalai Lama has also met Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer and Australian Prime Minister John Howard this year, and is due to meet Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper later this month.

China was outraged when Canada granted the Dalai Lama honorary citizenship last year

enigma, I'd never classify anyone who was born abroad and has never been to their mother-land as hailing from that country...How can anyone call these kids Tibetans when most of these kids were born in Nepal or India and so were their parents.  Most have never been to Tibet and neither have their parents.  They in my mind are not Tibetans, but the natives of Neapl or India (depending on where they and their parents grew up).  Would you call a 3rd generation Japanese-American as "Japanese" when they've no physical ties with Japan (except maybe spiritually)?  Simialr case applies to the Tibetan Diaspora too. 

However, as you pointed out, many feel that the cause for Tibet would die out with the death of the current Dalai Lama.  No wonder he is looking towards the intl community for support more than ever.  BTW, Today's Tbetan youth have been residing abroad for so long and are so immersed in the western life-style (or whichever country they're in) that they would never opt going back to Tibet although they all still consider the Dalai to be their spiritual guru,  They cannot be blamed for it as they are in my mind, not Tibetans as they've lived aborad for 50 years and most have never ever seen Tibet except in photos.  And the Tibetans you say you saw at the Nepali parties, well, I'd classify them as Nepalis as they eat the same food as I do, they speak the same language as I do and they, like me were all born in Nepal.  On a more racist tone, I've come across many Nepalis who make the mistake of calling all matwalis who hail from the Nepal side of the frontier with Tibet (sherpas, mananges, mustangey, peeps from dolpo, etc) as Tibetans.  I still can't fathom why??

And ekstrom, am waiting...Pls don't make me type what I've already done above agian and again.  Make sure you reall all my posts above thoroughly and then ask me for more answers.  G'nite to you too!!

Samsara, although I don't agree with you on lots of issues, I have to admit that the things you mentioned about His Holiness The Dalai Lama is accurate. Back while I was in school, I had to write a paper about His Holiness and did some research and was very much influenced. Bottom line, he deserves the award.

Someone here compared DL with Kim Jong of North Korea, come on man get a life. And about the rolex watch, do your study first before you point your finger to others, do you know how many exiled tibetans DL has to take care at Dharmasal in India. There're millions as refugees and they've pretty descent life there compared to Bhutanese refugees in Nepal. So pricks, look at our problem before we point to other. Evey moves DL makes is move to feed his people in India and their future. He's given up the hope of getting his country back, but now only travels around the world to get support and monetary help from other nations. That's why you see his photo up so many places with many different peoples.

Few things that I admire about DL are:

1.He discourage people to convert to Buddhism. He said that live on Larry King that you don't have to be a Buddhist to find inner peace.

2.He was from a poor family before he got selected as the 14th Dalai Lama. So there's not string attached for politics,fraud and family tie type of corruption.

3.He might have few rolex for fun, but he's put his money where his mouth is. Millions of refugees are surving in India, may be not the best standard but definetly better than refugees we have in Nepal.

4.He's down to earth person when he speaks, please look through is accent and listen to his message. Million in the West do.

I was given the choice between Sai Baba and Dalai Lama, and looking at the REAL work and my belief, I choose Dalai Lama.

Samsara, You don't know me. So leave me alone.

 

 

 

Samsara:

You mentioned yourself that he is a King that too a religious one. Where in the world Kings have done good for the people.

I might be able to give you logic but King will always live for themselves and it has been the truth. He is still living in the luxury going around the world and never contradicting anyone. But who is going to listen to him anyway? Few people like you...

 

Smasara:
Then you will have to go worshipping every monk/priest you see becasue they all have done the same things Dalai Lama have done: supressing their love, no children and so on.

Remember, Gandhi had a family and he chose his country over them, which is what i respect. When you don't have choice you are bound to do what people expect.

communist chased the monks away , what happened to their God ? is there God at all - atleast not on the monks side.

all these fake gods /monks

Samsara,

It took me a little long to reply because I don't know where do I even begin to correct your logical errors. So I will just stick to your last posting towards me. And there too, only thing you were right is about me, that too, not literally, I meant I am not f-lazy, I am q-lazy (quite lazy when it comes to replying threads with errors like yours).

Okay, can you come up with any books he himself has come up with? Has he established his own school of thought in Buddhism? Then what makes him so different or great from any Vedic, Muslim or Christian theologists? And if it wasn't for him being a leader of Tibeten people, (oh, yep, and also the one who sits on the throne of Potala palace) and his struggle for Free Tibet, and lobbying towards it, what do you see as his merit of recognition?

Now if you don't know the difference between Mr. Birendra, Mr. Zigme and Mr. Khomeni not getting Nobel prize and Mr. Lama getting one or if you want me to tell you, I suggest you go start going back to freshman years in universities again.

Wait a minute, did you say that Dalai Lama is not asking for a free Tibet? Alright, I guess Tibetan people will be very happy to know about that. While they are decorating their shirts with slogans like 'FREE TIBET”, from Bangalore to Berlin, protesting everywhere Chinese leaders go with banners written about their desire for freedom and independence, their holy/spiritual/great leader is up to something else. Ha Ha Ha.

Yet again, it amuses me what part of once-a-refugee-in-a-state-always-one-unless-any-law-changes you don't understand? Aren't you aware of the several bills in US senate that fail to become laws in such issues of illegal immigrants. As far as I know, Nepal had even harsher laws regarding these issues of immigration. Hell, they just passed a law not a year long ago that one can get citizenship of Nepal if his/her mother is a Nepalese citizen.

About camps, don't you know that there is still Tibetan refugee camp in Jawalakhel, where most of the Tibetans in the valley reside? They have a school there that Nepalese government pay for their kids education. But now, like I said before, who is kidding who, they are all Nepalese citizens now so may be there's no camp anymore. Talking about legal and illegal, those well-to-do Tibetans have their house, land and business in Nepal, what else do you think for them to achieve legally.

Hyaaa... congressional gold medal pauney Dalai Lama, pet dukhney yahaa ka dukulatthak harulai.  Yo ta Al Gore le Nobel Peace Prize paayo bhanera Right Wing Republicans haru ko aachi adkya jasto bho.

 

Exactly, how canyou call a person great if he supports his own once-country. If Tibet was still independent, i am sure Dalai Lama would be another King like out own or one ofo Bhutan giving any religious and political freedom to people.

Didn't the Tibetians lost their freedom becasue of the stupidity of the then government of Tibet where they called Chinese help to fight? Also, i read somewhere that the taxes Tibetian Business people paid in Tibet was really high because they had to feed the king who would not do anything but sit down with their malas.

And the millions you are talking about is not Dalai Lama's property, it is the money of the Tibetians which he better return to him.

Leaving a will? for whom, isn't he a monk? A monk's religion is to be selfless then what different is he?

ssNY dai, I've deleted your posts as per your request (since the youtube link wasn't embedded correctly).

haahaha  Sheetab, the damn ignoramus is back.  hahah  Lemme clip your wings AGAIN (for the 4th time now).  I am amused how peeps can come into this thread with so little knowledge on Tibetan Buddhism, the Dalai lama and the life-style of Tibetans everywhere.  And shamlessly, they portray a know all attitude on the issue.  hahahaha

Ok, the Dalai Lama was the ruler in Tibet, but don't you know that the TGIE elects its leaders on a democratic election basis?  All leaders are chosen for a 5 year term and then relected if necessary.  The Dalai knows that he undoubtedly would win, so he makes sure he remains as the religious head only (giving others a chance).  He does not decide on Tibet's internal affairs alone.  The Prime Minister in exile and his cabinet does it in consultation with his Holiness.  Where do we get such claims as him being a dictator from??  This ain't Saddam's Iraq, stupido!! 

hahaha  You say: "Didn't the Tibetians lost their freedom becasue of the stupidity of the then government of Tibet where they called Chinese help to fight? Also, i read somewhere that the taxes Tibetian Business people paid in Tibet was really high because they had to feed the king who would not do anything but sit down with their malas" - - -  WTF??  Tibet called the Chinese to fight?  Are you crazy??  Mao's army moved into the Tibetan Province claiming that it was a part of China during the 13th century (when the Mongols invaded Tibet).  The rational is the same as India moving into Nepal saying that during Chandragupta Maurya's time parts of Nepal were ruled by him.  And about taxes, land in Tibet was owned by the gompas.  The famers tolied on the land and shared the crop with the gompas.  Everything was on a subsistence routine.  And where did you read about high taxes for business peeps??  Was it in the archives of "yo figment of imagination"??  Listen, being a monastic society where each family voluntarily sent one child to the gompas for education, everyone was somehow connected to the gompas.  If I had a meaningful realtionship with my neighborhood church, Hell, I'd donate every now and then too, won't I?  And if my brother was a priest there, won't I make it a point to support him??  Damn, where does your rational arise outta?  I can keep bombarding yo azz all day!  hahahah

Next in line, DUKE makin me puke...Hey, on a "vely-velly" ignorant basis, there ain't no God in Tibetan Buddhism.  Get your facts straight.  Everything is based on karmic rebalancing (as in Hinduism you have "rita" in the Rig Veda).  BTW, You're not yet ready for 101 class in Buddhism, go pick up the "Buddism for dummies" guide, maybe that'll get your gray matter working!!"

sgy, the congressional gold medal talk had been going on for the past few years and even last year, this issue was held up in the congress (why don't you research before coming here reeking of ignorance).  And the timing with Al Gore's Nobel was nothing but mere co-incidence...Rather Al Gore's was a surprise as atleast I had known about the Dalai's nomination 2 years ago.

Finally, Ekstrom who comes up with questions which he has noticed but not done much research on.  You ask what he has done for Buddhism and his own school of thoughts...Well, if you know Tibetan Buddhism, there are 4 schools of thought.  Ever heard of gelugpas (of the yellow hats??).  Who heads it?  There I answered it all!  And writing books?  Why is that even necessary?  Did Socrated and Aristotle ever write books?  They were damn orators whose philosophical reasonings were passed down through ancient tablets and word of mouth.  Same too with the scriptures of the gelugpa sect, moron.  And the reason I talk about the other heads of state being awarded the Nobel, etc: Didn't you write that the Dalai was awarded all these awards SOLELY for being a religious head/ruler of Tibet (in those lines)??  If thats the case, why haven't the other rulers been recognized elsewhere beside their own small pond.

And you say: "once-a-refugee-in-a-state-always-one-unless-any-law-changes"...WTF?  What about the kids of the refugees born after they have moved outside the confines of the refugee camps?  What about the kids of these kids??  BTW, talk to an immigration lawyer about this and see how hard he slaps you on your face for being more supid than a 5th grader!!  hhahaha

And about the Dalia Lama asking for Free Tibet (hahah becoz someone flaunts a t-shirt, you think it was said by the Dalai Lama or the TGIE??), just hear the first line of the below broadcast on CNN where he doen not ask for an Free Tibet but rather an autonomous Tibet (don't you get the difference).  All he wants is that the people there be allowed to exercise religious and spiritual freedom...Political freedom, he knows will never be granted so he strays away from that topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOm3H9wpySQ&eurl=http://forums.phayul.com/index.php?showtopic=756

 

All in all, the above ignoramus' could've atleast spent a few minutes googling for the amswers rather than be made into the butt of all jokes here at sajha.  Listen, I'm not Tibetan (nor were my fore-fathers), but yet, I'm giving you the 101s on Buddhism and Tibetans.  All it takes is a bit of research and going out and knowing these humble people rather than type any crap that just flows outta you mind.  I did that, why not do the same and learn rather than cling to your ignorant beliefs that will get blown down time and again by da one and only Samsara himself!   hahahaha

Samsara:

Whatever i know is enough for me to make my comments. You seem to see everything great and good in Tibet and Dalai Lama and that makes me wonder.

But i would still label him as the same and your points would not prove much. They were the glories of the past and i still fail to understand why he should be given any importance at Present. Politics is same everywhere and Tibet was no different. You can give all rationale as to how great the country was but again say that one in a family was made a monk? Common now, who would want to be a monk on their own will unless someone makes them?

religious politics is the worst form of dictatorship and i do not need your logic to understand that.

Who cares about Tibetans or Dalai Lama??? What about Nepal and Nepalese people (who are facing the problem right now)?? What about killings like in Gaur and Kapilbastu? What about having no election? What about the future of the King? What about our leaders? This thread started off to prove that all the Tibetans are not like "the himalayan kid" who ran over an European female student in NYC driving under the influence of alcohol some time back. It would have been so nice if people here in Sajha have shown such a deep knowledge about Nepal's crisis as Samsara has on Dalai Lama, Tibet's history, and Buddhism.

I care about the Dalai Lama and perhaps hundreds of thousands of Nepalis who follow him do.  BTW, Haven't we all been responding to the threads that highlight Nepal's crisis??  Why don't you start a thread with all those issues you point out and look for a response rather than just wait for someone else to be proactive (so you could jump into the bandwagon).  More depressingly, all threads I see about the Nepalese socio-economic-political scenario are only related to the Maoists and the netas, which I am sick of responding to every time (with the same thoughts).  As you pointed out, maybe newer topics are what we need.

Sheetalb, once more, you're reking of ignorance.  You ask: "Common now, who would want to be a monk on their own will unless someone makes them?" Hey, listen, my cousin wanted to be a monk even when he was as little as 6 yrs of age.  There was something that he probably understood which we, materialist infatuated normal humans didn't.  Also, I've seen and heard numberous cases where from an early age, kids wanted to join the gompas.  On a more famous note, what about model Kohinoor who did it on her own will (perhaps the only one who comes to mind which you probably heard of since you're too damn lazy to research on your own.).  All in all, I think you're shittin' me when you sid you had Tib friends..And mos def, your points need to be chomped down like I do my french-friez!!

See my old post from above: "BTW, don't lie to us here as I seriously think you're "BS"ing big time here: I can guarantee that you have no Tibetan friends.  Why?  Coz, ALL my life I've NEVER ever seen any Tibetan who would even think of voiceing anything against the Dalai Lama (both young and old).  And I've seen a few Neps who said similar to what you just did above, being ostercized for eternity...They'd avoid you like the plague after that.  I'm dead serious."

 

PS:  Its "Tibetans: not Tibetians...Don't know where you got the word from.  Damn, I'd hate to be called a Nepalian.

Samsara:

Here is the Tibetian ruling in brief and how some majority of them welcomed China's intervention. You know Politics is a dirty game always. I will never ever believe that a politician or a religious leader is a good-know all great person. It is my personal choice. I have the same opinion about Pope and other leaders even though i am a CHRISTIAN.

"Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine. 14 The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.

In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. 15 The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand.16 Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location. 17

As in a free labor system and unlike slavery, the overlords had no responsibility for the serf’s maintenance and no direct interest in his or her survival as an expensive piece of property. The serfs had to support themselves. Yet as in a slave system, they were bound to their masters, guaranteeing a fixed and permanent workforce that could neither organize nor strike nor freely depart as might laborers in a market context. The overlords had the best of both worlds.

One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished”; they “were just slaves without rights.”18 Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord’s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed.19

The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery.20

The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives."

Source: google.com

I've read that before years ago and seen where it origniated from...China.  This has been on numerous webboards where it has been blasted time and again by all.  All I need to do is cut and paste it here but I'd rather leave that out and let myself be original.  Listen, it makes me laugh everytime that for a country (China) with no human rights (political, religious or spiritual), they are the ones talking about human rights here.  Go do some finer research fro more credible sources before you end up being taken for a fool.

Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass": Continue your annotations, continue your questionings.

Hey Samsara....I agree with u all the way.. Fools who know nothing about the Dalai Lama or the Tibetan ppl and their cause should stop arguing over this issue.....Sheetalb...Kevin ekstrom and DUke...just reading your thread makes me realize how ignorant u guys can be and trying to prove your point with someone as smart as Samsara (don't know u but u seem to know a lot) makes u look more ignorant so don't even try it...Thanks Samsara for enlightening these fools with knowledge on this issue coz they really need...

And from where does your story originated? From some Western writers or some Hollywood movies? Now that you cannot prove yourself, you can blame CHINA for everything.

Also, how can you ignore that if a place has King, then there will be his followers who will be pleasing him. There will be ranks and people to please at every step. Especially if you are a monk and do nothing but sit around rolling beads, normal people will have to work much harder and pay more to get usual stuff. Nepal got democracy many years ago, but has our CHAKADI to king stopped? it is the same thing. But if one chose to follow a monk blindly, who can blame you?

The only enlightening neededat this point is by Dalai Lama himself who really needs to prove something before he dies, who has done nothing but ask everyone to be PATIENCE. Gosh, it is so temporary. I think in today's modern times, his days of being Demi-God is gone.

As China becomes more powerful I am sure his position will only be to give some speeches in some unversities.

Samsara,

Sad to know you are one of those few morons, who follow a leader who doesn't even know his own majority of followers' true voice. Time and again you have been telling me to look up in the net, would you do the honor first and type 'Free Tibet' in any search engine and see what shows up? By the way, I looked up in the net, for your satisfaction, about the school of thoughts in Buddhism, but I didn't find anything about 'gelugpa' sector.

While, I already know about the two most famous school of thoughts in Buddhism, that are Mahayana, and Hinayana. Tibetan Buddhism falling under Hinayana school of thoughts. Anyways, I want to stop here with my final words, because when you fail to recognize differences between simple procedures such as coming up with one's own thought and showing that path to the followers (Aristotle, Socrates) and simply passing on the thoughts that has already been there (Dalai Lama, any religious leaders), there is no need proving myself to you. Heck, by your own rationale, you have even failed to recognize the difference between Dalai Lama and Gautam Buddha.