Just wondering from where the THAKURIS of Nepal really originated? I also heard thery were Muslim in the begenning, is that true?

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Disclamair: Please do not turn the topic, I just wanna know the history of THAKURIS, no racism here please.

By the way, aaisiyo, gaisiyo, uthsyo, sutsyo hahaha thats a BIG FUN.......!!

Maila dai,
r u trying to imply that just by talking aishyos gaishyos they are aristocrat? I'm sorry but I do not agree with you..

sndy that's what i'm trying to say. People have separated out the aaisyosh gaisyosh as the aristocratic language and that divides the society. It's another source of discrimination that we don't need.

आँssssच आइस्यो गइस्यो रे!! मलाई त दामी लाग्छ हौ!! कस्सम!! आँफुले भन्ने त होइन है तर अरुले आँफुलाई भन्यो भने त नाक फुलेर याँsss हुन्छ नि हौ!! आँफुले भन्नुपर्यो भने त रड्डी हुन्छ।

तर कोहि कोहि आइस्यो गइस्यो भन्नेले नभन्नेलाई तोर्पे अनि नभन्ने ले भन्नेलाई सामन्ती ठान्दिन्छ नि अन्त त्यो चाँहि झूर लाग्छ।

आमामामा! मेरो अमेरिकन साथीलाई अस्ति न मैले सम्झाँउदा सम्झाँदा मेरो त गिदी भएर बबाल!!

जस्ले जे भनेपनि हामी किन अरु सङ्ग फोकट मा बिच्किने होला है!! आँच कसैले मलाई आइस्यो गइस्यो भने नि हुने आज अफिसमा .....रे क्या!! :पि

BTW...let's try and stick to the original topic, "Just wondering from where the THAKURIS of Nepal really originated? I also heard thery were Muslim in the begenning, is that true?"

It would be nice if people could list their sources from where they are gathering their information. Hear & say has no value in history. So if you could base your writings with reliable sources, that would be great knowledge sharing.

Again the website listed below has great historical information regarding different regions of Nepal. Currently the author only has info regarding Lambjang and Kaski, Mustang, & Nepal.
http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Nepal/nepal.htm

I think the Thakuris are descendants of Rajputs fleeing Mogul invasion and persecution and the indigenous people living in the upper Karnali belt. If you look at facial features of these people, you can see Mongoloid traits quite visibly.

I agree with Maila-Raja with regards to the origin of the word, Shah. It's Persian and it predates Islam.

One of my Thakuri friends is known to get miffed when he is not addressed as Raja by his wife. :-) Ke garne?

sndy...

I am not trying to imply anything here. There is no use in implying anything in Sajha.com. All I am concerned is historical facts & sharing knowledge. Also I am not trying to win people's mind or agree on anything. Simply sharing knowledge.

Originally "aishyos gaishyos" was primarily used by the aristocrats, ruling families, govt. workers, govt. servants, army men etc., but later many Bahun & Chettri families in Ktm picked up this dialect. I know many people who are originally from outside Ktm valley who never used "aishyos gaishyos" in their villages but then changed their dialect to "aishyos gaishyos" by mingling with people who speak this dialect in Ktm valley.
Got Influenced?

Used by Ruling families, yes..but to term them as aristocrats, I don't think so..but then again, how do you define aristocrat?

History of Aristocracy from Wikipedia:
"The term "aristocracy" was first given in Athens to young citizens who led armies from the front line with their swords up. Since military bravery was such a highly regarded virtue in ancient Greece, the armies were being led by "the best". From the ancient Greeks, the term passed on to the European Middle Ages for a similar hereditary class of military leaders often referred to as the "nobility". In India, these men are usually of the martial or Kshatriya caste such as the Gujjars and Rajputs and their sub-divisions. In the Islamic world, the aristocratic caste of Sayyid belongs exclusively to the descendants of Prophet Muhammad and extends to all classes of society."

Examples of Aristocrats:
Wealthy, powerful & noble people.
Roosevelt’s (USA)
Kennedy family (USA)
Wealthy Landowners

Aristocrat can also refer to an elegant person with a gracious lifestyle and strong sense of duty. I guess in this day & age, people don't like to use the term aristocrats. One could consider people like Bill Gates & Warren Buffett to be aristocrats since they are No. 1 & No. 2 richest men in the world plus also No 1. philanthropists.

To see some pics of Tibetan aristocrats goto - http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/asianstudies/TibetanPhotos/Aristocrats.html

originally "aishyos gaishyos" was primarily used by the aristocrats, ruling families yes.. but why does everyone else want to copy that and add yet another division to the many many divisions we already have within our society?

Lot of bahun and chettri families picked it up later as maila dai said. I guess this was a copy cat move to make them feel aristocratic. Unfortunately it's just one more division that we have created among us.

Ranas wanted to be different and respected. They copied a lot of things from Indian -muslm nababs. Darshan, aayesoyos, gayesoyos, not showing back etc etc is all copied form nababs from India , by Ranas. Sahas later copied that, and it slowly spreaded in the ktm valley.
Back in those days, ranas were very scared of their power being taken away. They were specially scared by basnyats, thapas, and other regular chhetries. They stated a system called " chakadi" where regular ppl would have to visit these ranas in their house like almost everyday to show their obidence.
In the time of Prithivi narayan shah there was no soyos. There was gaya , bhaya... etc.. like , " chetana bhaya". ... ranas stated this gayasoyos , aayesosos crap and it was for dominating purpose. for fake ego trip. No one with reasonable brain in a democratic society should stoop so low to make other person feel better. Tapai is enough. I am a cheetry myself, and i have given up saying this bullshit a long time ago.. I urge everyone to do the same. This aayeso - gaayeesooo thing was started on bad purpose, to dominate regular people , and since we have freedom and equal opportunity we should stop this fake ego boosting methods of talking.

I don't understand some of the statements as to "divisions".
Who is creating divisions among the Nepalese society? Who is responsible?
The answers to these questions could lie within many factors, both political & economical, which is not the objective of this thread.

If you want to discuss about divisions, how about a new thread about Secularism. How come we are so sensitive nowadays regarding secularism? I don't remember people in Nepal fighting and killing one another because of differences in their belief system, be it Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity or Nature worship. How come all of a sudden people are so sensitive to their roots & their belief system?

Just because some group of people prefer to use a certain dialect, creates divisions?? Who cares really who speaks what dialect in this day & age? Everyone in Nepal speaks Nepalese language differently. Who is to control who speaks what dialect? The Govt.?? Remember freedom of expression!

The language first learned is called one's native language or mother tongue; both of these terms are figurative in that the knowledge of particular languages is ‘not inherited but learned behavior.’ The point here is ... anyone can pickup any dialect. It's a personal choice.

"Just because some group of people prefer to use a certain dialect"

This hajuria language was forced to the local people of kathmandu. Back in the Rana days Army was the sole source of employment. Armies would have to go to the houses of Ranas to show obedence, so called " chakadi" system. The army men copied the dialect and stated using in their houses also, they were mostly chhetries. Thakuris were able to marry with ranas and High ranking chhetries so they copied the language also. Really this is all stupid.the language is not ours, it was forced. It was stated as a copy of nababs of India. It is not a culture , rather a bad tradition which we do not even realize anymore. It does nothing good in a society.

dyamn लाई त चिने चिने जस्तो लाग्यो !

Seems like there are quite a few "Control" peeps on this thread. Stop this...stop that... :) Remember in a democracy, there is something called freedom of speech & expression and neither the Govt. or anyone can CONTROL dialects spoken by people.

Personally I don't speak this stuff in public. Only with few close elderly people. Just because some people choose to speak this dialect on a regular basis, one should not feel insecure. "Judge not lest you be judged". TOLERANCE??

remember in a democracy you can say to stop, but you can not force to stop...no one here is forcing...

maila that kind of language was only common for royal family friends but thesedays it's seeping in to the rest of the society.

Personally I don't believe it's a good thing to have another separation of a higher form of you in our daily interactions.

Think about a scenario:

Family A doesn't use hajur sajur.
Family B uses hajur sajur aisyosh gaisyosh

When person from family A and family B works for person C. Person C can relatively feel that person from family B is honoring him more because of the use of hajur sajur while person from family A calls him tapain.

This very aspect creates a CHAMCHAGIRI system in the work place, education and everywhere in the society. So there is no need to bring this into our language mainstream. Let us be proficient in our use of ta, timi and tapain and take that hajur sajur chamchagiri language out of our society.

CHAMCHAGIRI .... LOL.

How about Proposition 11A (Abolish Hajur Sajur Aisyosh Gaisyosh) during the next election?
You guys can be the lobbist and pressurize MPs to pass this bill. Let the people of Nepal vote & be the "Decider". "Decider" ... hmm it's a dream for the common mass but in reality it's the politicians. Metallica sings ... Sad but True.

maila dai you seem to be hamro gyane maila dai ko chamcha LOL

bhusan ji .... What's your basis for calling me 'gyane ko chamcha?' Before you make such a statement think. I am not for any political party or King G. I am just trying to learn and contribute what I know regarding the original topic of this thread.

I don't vote in the US just by affiliating myself as a Democrat or Republican. I vote by researching about the individual who is on the ticket, what are his/her priorities ...what issues has he/she handled in the past. Basically I vote for a candidate based on their record.

I have noticed that when one discusses in sajha, when one has no intelligent or interesting viewpoints on a particular topic, name calling, trying to pull down someone's leg and then finally accusing someone by saying you are Gyane's chamcha...Girija's chamcha...Prachanda's chamcha is a common sight. Get over it man. Think outside the box sometimes. Is this all you have to say? Have you read the original topic on how this thread started in the first place? Just share knowledge if you have any. Why accuse someone when you don't know a shit about that person's political viewpoints?

bhusan ji ... looking at your previous postings in sajha, it seems you are quite a Boka & a Prachanda chamcha. LOL.