Hi San and Sajha users,

I am writing to protest against the activities of one of the Sajha members, Nas.

1) He is posting all sorts of erotic pictures he can get from all over the web as "Nas's album". This makes Sajha look like a porn site.

2) He is writing sick words about a religious leader SAI BABA whom millions consider as a God. ( There are conspiracy theories against every true and bold things scientists/ philosophers/ religious leaders come up with. So, you CANNOT judge somebody wrong or right, homosexual/gay/paedophile or GOD merely referencing some newspaper and some videos which are themselves unproved and unclear.) Whether we believe in baba or not believe in baba is our own choice and conscience, but to come to some public forum, and write sick words about him merely proves that NAS IS SICK. HE NEEDS A PSYCHIATRIST.

If Nas wants to see porn, he can see it. You have your freedom of choice. But posting porn pictures in SAJHA does NOT make him look smart.
Moreover, if he thinks Sai baba is not a god, he better present an article in a more "decent" way instead of cursing SAi baba. THe fact he has to consider is that there are millions of people in the world who love sai baba.

Nas's activities provoke religious intolerance, and hatred among people even with slightly different religious/social views.

Nepal is comprised of diverse religions/ cultures/social systems/ beliefs . Even Nepali visiting Sajha are diverse. Tolerance among all these things is the only source of our social/emotional union. Since, Nas is creating a very polluted environment in Sajha. His IP and all the usernames associated with him should be banned. I request San for this on behalf all the Nepalis who wish to remain frens whatever religious/social beliefs they have.

Thanks,
dhamilo_chitiz

I have heard that he (Sai) materializes watches and gives them to his devotees.
Does people (supporters of Baba, may be not all) know that watches are made in factories and they (watches) are run by batteries? I bet Sai's materialized watches have batteries that read "Made in India", Huummmmmm...may be not because he uses automatic watches or there are plain batteries inside them. Anyway I think materialization of watches is hillarious and such a big joke. Keep it up frns, let's hear what other shows does this poor stage magician do?

I dont really agree with what NAS does or what he says..YET, I still find his postings very entertaining to me (eventhough they are not credible).

To be honest, to entertain me you dont necessarily have to agree with what I say or what I do and vis-a-vis.

On this ground I dont want to see him banned from this site...I want to be entertained.

i dont see whats their to discuss about this....doesnt the fact itself that some human claiming himself to be god, enough to prove that he is just banking on ppls emotions.

he might very well have some spritiual powers and healing powers, but he's not god. but ya he had also dont quiet good things for ppl..so that cant be ignored.

anyways.

NAS ur sick re??? What happp mannn Hope u feeeeeeel bettter hahah ( just posting it loking at the topic)

Dhamilo Chitiz bro,

I understand where you stands in your beliefs on this "paedophile". It is impossible for me to believe that this "paedophile" is Godly after examining the evidences and countless researches, the same way it is impossible for you to change your views regarding this "God".

"My mind is serene, quiet."

Bro, your mind is definately not serene and its not in anyway closer to being quiet. Your reaction to my threads prove it all. If you had a quiet mind, you would just ignore all these "chaos". You are too reactive. You wanted me banned from this forum just because I stand against your beliefs. You asked me why people did not come against Sai with their proofs of victimization. You are the reason people are not coming out. The hostility of Sai's devotees. You are a very good example. Now you know why !

"remove your illusion,and ... see the truth"

Yes, I have a very doubtful mind and I am more closer to seeing the truth than you would ever be. A doubtful mind can only question the authencity of the truth. Your mind is submissive. Your faith is blind, without questions, without doubts, without rationals and reasonings.

"I love all, so i wanted to get rid of the chaos u were creating in sajha"

Bro, you are contradicting yourself. You say you love all and yet you wanted to get rid of the chaos I was creating. If you would have loved me, you would have simply loved and enjoyed the chaos I created. Definately, you don't love my opinions against your faith and beliefs. You were quick to protest me and even wanted me to be banned. Bro, you will never uplift your spirituality if you have a mindset like this. You are living a delusional life of epic proportion.

hahahahaha....

Nas bro,
gr8 going. how about posting that song "kati khep bhannu maile nihu nakhoj hai....." now? i guess it will be very apt to the situation of the thread hahahahahaha :P ;)

in jest,
LooTe
PS well...there is not much to debate...so i better shut my mouth....*restrains from barking* :P

hah..as it is mentioned on Nas post..the uncanny resemblance!!!find it quite hilarious(i laugh at sick things?:oS hehe)esp the HAIR!!wahahaha.

i mean Bala Sai Baba who claims Satya Sai Baba(didnt realise they had Satya..bala ..prema etc to differentiate...ingenious dun u think?so simple yet .. ;oP hehe) is an imposter..bala is younger..but in the end..in his mind he must be thinkin smthing like this?

"Satya is fake!but Satya sure still knows how to dress like a real one?at least he got the hairstyle right?cos look at my own hairstyle?" wahahaha ;oP..

pretty curious now how prema style is like?seriously do they have a "Dress and look like a Sai baba/deity 101" class or smthing where u can learn such things from?looks sure do matter eh?diety or not?and to think we think we are shallow when we consider looks?look at the example of 'dieties' hah!ok... so called dieties to those who dun believe ;oP hehe..

----------------------
ok back to dhamilos post..i try not to take sides hai..i think i try not to ;oP hehe.. tho i might seem like siding one side ;oP hehe...

(achi!!i have a feeln i be blabbering :o| hehe)

anyways eveyrone is just voicing their opinion..so i guess nothin wrong if i do so too?tho i might just be repeating a lot of stuffs?how original can we be anyways hoina?;oP hehe..

in the end doesnt it just come down to how we perceive things?

*deleted the rest of the bhakwash*(aint i kind?yeah think im feeln a bit kind today!seriously!;oP hehe)

and u aint a believer unless u open ur eyes and get thru all those doubts out there hoina?esp ur own self doubt?plus wat can be expected of a non believer?or a believer?;oP hehe...

good day!:oD

sai is a sick gay

Nas bro
I like the way you are defending.

After I looked those videos, I was shocked.
He is playing with peoples mentality and that is sin.
I had some respect on him eventhough i always had some questions and doubts.

those bbc coverage and videos has proven little bit of my doubts.
I think he is just deceiving hindus.

By the way your album is awesome. I can't stop clicking those sexy pics.
yes sometimes i was worried whether you are goin to turn it into porn but it looks ok and upto the limit till now.

SATHYA SAI BABA "GREEN DIAMOND" FOR ROBERT PRIDDY PROVEN A FAKE
- BY TOP DANISH DIAMOND EXPERT

by Robert Priddy - former long-term leader of the Sai Organisation in Norway

On 31/10/2002, my wife Reidun and I returned from three days in Copenhagen, Denmark, where the 'green diamond' Sathya Sai Baba gave me in 1986 (shown above) was examined by Mr. Peter Hertz, the Danish Queen Margarethe's jeweller, a top Scandinavian expert on precious stones and diamonds. All was filmed in detail by Øjvind Kyrø's team for Danish TV. The result of the investigation, which took two days, is that the stone is a synthetic green sapphire.Value only about $40 today in super-expensive Denmark. Its value in India today could therefore probably be around $10.

I gave permission for opening the ring, (the stone is encased at the back so the stone's underside cannot be seen, as are all so-called Sai Baba diamond rings that I have seen). It turned out to have a layer of green silver foil behind the stone to enhance the green colour and reflect light. Behind the silver foil, the golden casing was painted black. The metal is 18 carat gold. (The stone was formerly estimated by its surface size to be the equivalent of ca. 5 to 6 carats, the stone being 1.2 cm in diameter). Mr. Hertz estimated the total value of the ring as perhaps up to $200 in Denmark today. So, if ‘the Avatar’ materialised it as he certainly made pretence of doing, why did he also put a silver foil in to 'foil' people? He really IS a trickster and a liar about his materialisations and their composition.

Mr. Hertz assured us that he was able to determine without any doubt that the stone was not natural but artificial or 'synthetic' - that is to say, manufactured by human beings. The film of this visit to the famous jeweller in Copenhagen includes a brief interview with me in which I commented on this. This is to be shown eventually as documentary evidence when the right programme opportunity arises on the Danish National TV channel (DR1). For a preview of some pictures from the filming at the jeweller's clickhere.

That the stone is a fake conflicts totally with what Sathya Sai Baba let us understand about it when he gave it to me at an interview on Dec. 23'rd, 1986. It was something for which I never asked, but to refuse in that situation was unthinkable. No more, however! Devotees said it was such a great honour and - until that time - very few persons had been given such large 'green diamond' rings. Among those few who had were: 1) the International Chairman of the Sathya Sai Organisation, Mr. Indulal Shah, 2) The Head of Administration at the Vidyagiri ‘deemed’ University - Mr. Kanhaia Jee, 3) Mr. Victor Kanu, and 4) Mr. Antonio Craxi 5) Mr. Robert Bruce. (Apropos, Mrs. Craxi stated the opinion that green rings are "power rings”. But her husband was unable to help keep his brother, Bettino Craxi, in power, not with the help of his ring (nor with their Mafia connections, for that matter.) Mr. B. Craxi, who visited Sathya Sai Baba in Puttaparthi while he was Italy's Prime Minister, died recently as a criminal in exile in Tunis, fleeing a conviction in Italy to about 18 years in prison plus massive multi-million dollar fines.

Can such trickery and lies be explained away?

Sathya Sai Baba had every opportunity subsequently to refute that this was a genuine green diamond he had given to me, for he accepted my book 'Source of the Dream' in 1994 and signed it on the inside cover. In that book the 'green diamond' is photographed very clearly and what Sathya Sai Baba said when he gave it to me is stated verbatim (see below). Sathya Sai Baba is supposed to know what is in any book (and anything anywhere!), and he has said as much in public numerous times too. So in no way can he be exonerated for fraudulent behaviour.

Many Sai devotees are deluded enough to explain away such facts in any conceivable fashion. Therefore, I can assure everyone that, when Mr. Hertz put the ring back together after opening it, the original stone WAS used (not exchanged by him with a fake). I can tell this by examining the stone through a strong magnifier, because the same few tiny specks as before can be seen within it and the same tiny broken edges on the stone after hard wear are still present. So the stone is exactly the same as before.

This new and wholly indubitable information backs up very decisively the assertions of David Bailey in his long exposé paper 'The Findings' about a similar discovery with a said ‘diamond’ ring given him by Sathya Sai Baba. It is a pity that he did not have it filmed and documented with photos etc. when he went to a jeweller in Hyderabad in 1999, who actually produced such rings for Sathya Sai Baba. Like many others, I was not then convinced by David Bailey’s brief account (though I was in strong doubt about Sathya Sai Baba already and had become uncertain about my ring’s genuineness). The Hyderabad jeweller (whose name and address were unfortunately not given by Bailey) reportedly also showed that silver foil had been placed behind the enclosed stone to create a silhouette, and demonstrated how he himself did this, placing the foil on a blackened background. Mr. Hertz informed me that the technique of enhancing the brilliance in such rings - even those with genuine diamonds - was used back in the 18th century in Portugal and elsewhere. This was well before more modern diamond technology made this superfluous and allowed diamonds and other precious stones to shine fully without enclosing them or using silver or foil. (Incidentally, Portugal colonised Goa, where this technique could doubtless also have been taken up by Indians - or perhaps vice-versa).

 I had occasionally wondered about the authenticity of these stones, such as when I saw the ca. 1 carat green stone in a ring worn by Mrs. Maynard Ferguson. She told my wife and I that the ring was "very worn down" due to her having worn it all the time, doing housework and washing up. The green stone certainly looked dull and much the worse for wear. The same applied to the same sized clear 'diamond' ring worn by Mr. Ron Laing, when we visited him and his wife, Peggy Mason, in Tunbridge Wells in 1987. Ron Laing said he had been told that it was a diamond. Diamonds simply cannot be scratched, except by another diamond. I held it and examined closely, for it was so worn that it looked more like a piece of heavily scoured glass. I certainly have to wonder, now, how on earth I could have gone on believing in the authenticity of the claim of Sathya Sai Baba that these were diamonds after seeing these 'worn rings'. But such is the power of faith, it overrides all reasonable obstacles evidently. Needless to say, it also easily lands you in the ditch with its back broken if you ride it too far. However, it is basic scientific knowlege that genuinediamonds NEVER scratch except by another diamond, for they are the hardest substance known to us. The can only be affected by the abrasion of other diamonds or diamond dust! They can chip, but never become dull through normal abrasions of any kind.

 I have a sneaking suspicion that, despite my not wishing to think myself any more blessed than the next man, it crossed my mind that Ron Laing's and Mrs. Ferguson's stones could possibly have become dull because they did not have enough faith (actually they had far too much faith in Sathya Sai Baba and most of the hearsay about him, as if to the nth degree, poor souls). I could not but wonder at that time whether their stones were fake diamonds (an unpleasant thought which I rejected soon because I also believed or really hoped that mine was genuine). Devotees apply this 'doublethink' to all kinds of such incidents... anything unpleasant Sathya Sai Baba says or does to them is attributed to their poor karma, their bad acts etc. Mostly, because of Sathya Sai Baba's constant preaching on this, it is supposed to be lack of firm faith that causes others to meet such disappointments. I have heard this kind of fatuous hypocrisy from various devotees... those who doubt do not have enough faith, so Sathya Sai Baba changes the objects from a distance so they lose their true nature (and also their 'spiritual power').

Numerous others have claimed that, if one acts badly or questions Sathya Sai Baba's genuineness etc., a ring can disappear wherever you may be (because he makes it do so). But they overlook the words of Sathya Sai Baba when he said: "Science transforms things, re-arranges them, studies their composition, re-groups their parts and releases the energy that lies latent in them. But I create the things themselves. And they are as lasting as any that is found in Nature!" (Sathya Sai Speaks - Vol. 2 New ed., p. 73). So Sathya Sai Baba "creates" artificial, man-made sapphires and fixes them up with silver foil? I don't think so!

What Sai Baba and others say about his productions

I have heard most distinctly Sathya Sai Baba say of one ring that he supposedly materialised before us that it was a “one carat diamond and 22 carat gold”. He deceived me about the ring he gave me, saying it was a "better ring" than the clear diamond one he supposedly changed it from, which he verbally confirmed was a diamond. Never once to my knowledge has he stopped the constant statements by nearly all followers that his rings and earrings etc. contain real diamonds... the talk and the deception involved evidently suits him all too well. Sathya Sai Baba also gave a "diamond" trinket to Dr. Michael Goldstein of the USA, a man who has demonstrated how easily he is flattered by Sathya Sai Baba, and easily deluded to a high degree. Think of the donations this has inspired. It was just after I had said in the private interview that I wanted to make a donation that he told me he would make me a ring the next day. Altogether, we have given over £15,000 to Sathya Sai Baba.

Mr. Hertz expressed surprise that Sathya Sai Baba did not rather let us believe that the stone was an emerald, since this was his first impression of what it might be. When I replied to his initial question on what I thought the stone was by saying "it is supposed to be a green diamond", he told me later that he had known at once that it could not be a diamond, not least due to the unevenness in the light it reflected. This unevenness was evidently due to the manner in which the green silver foil was inserted incompletely behind the stone so a painted black background caused some shading, allowing a kind of shadowy, rough silhouette of a head and shoulders to appear from certain angles when shading it from above. This is no "mysterious appearance" of Sai Baba, as many devotees even believe, but a result of the manner of cutting and mounting the stone. (This rough kind of head and shoulders silhouette can be seen in the right hand picture above, where the ring is beside a silver medallion – a so-called ‘Sai dollar’ – that Sathya Sai Baba gave to my wife during our first interview.)

Mr. Victor Kanu, very well-known within the Sai movement and now the principal of a Sathya Sai college in Zambia, had received a virtually identical ring a year or so before I did. When I asked him about it he told me, "Swami said one could see him in the ring from time to time". So Sathya Sai Baba planted the suggestion in him that this silhouette, produced by a jeweller's cheap technique, actually shows him. Prof. N Kasturi wrote in his official biography of Sathya Sai Baba (Sathyam, Sivam, Sundaram Part II, p. 233): "Baba has granted many gem-set rings with the blessing, 'You can see Me inside this stone' ". This brand of wishful thinking has become a standard among nearly all Sai devotees, for the dark silhouette one can see - very unclear and variable with the lighting and surroundings etc. - is perceptible in most of the rings that Sathya Sai Baba calls diamonds. Sathya Sai Baba did this directly when he gave a ring with a smaller clear diamond to a Mr. Kaufmann from Denmark while I sat beside him at an interview in 1989, saying that the gold was "twenty-four carat" ans the stone was "one carat diamond".

The famous diamond company of India, Tata Industries, was run by the famous Mr. Kamani. According to the long-serving Head of Administration at Sai Baba's Vidyagiri University in Puttaparthi, Mr. Kanhaia Jee, who had a ring and stone virtually identical to mine, Mr. Kamani told him while visiting Sathya Sai Baba once that the green stone could be "nothing but a diamond". That was very convincing at the time, even though Mr. Kamani had not done any scientific analysis of his ring. Since then I have wondered about what Mr. Kamani may actually have said, or why he said what K. Jee reported... perhaps so as not to disappoint a devotee? Indians are very well-known for yea-saying so as not to cause embarrassment or loss of face etc., a very confusing trait that all who travel to India discover sooner or later. At all events, what Mr. Kamani actually stated remains uncertain, for there is no documentation of his views on Sathya Sai Baba ‘diamonds’.

Add to the above the report of Mr. Robert Bruce who told me he met a man who was claimed to be Australia's foremost expert on opals. Robert Bruce told me that he had estimated the value of his stone (also green and of the same size and cutting as is mine) at "between five and six million dollars". Anyone who wishes to check the value of the world's most expensive diamonds can soon see that this was an incredibly fabulous sum for such a small stone. The perfect clear diamond given to Elizabeth Taylor by Richard Burton in the 1970s was worth only £200,000. It now seems to me that that man, if he is any kind of expert at all, should stick to opals. I also heard at second-hand of someone who was claimed to have had his very similar green-stone ring examined at Tiffany's in New York, which firm had reportedly kept it for two weeks or so and that the result was that the stone was an extremely rare diamond of a sort known only to ancient India. Need I say it... there is no documentary evidence of any of the above claims anywhere to be found. It was evidently just a combination of imagining, wishful thinking, if it was not an out-and-out untruth... or simply the invention of misunderstood hearsay. Such hearsay is the basis of a mass of what is said and written about Sai Baba and to take it all in one's limits of credulity would have to be that of a 3-year old.

Decades ago, Sathya Sai Baba told the editor of the Indian Marxist ‘Blitz’ magazine, Mr. Karanjia; "What I do is a different act of creation. It is neither magic, nor is it siddhi power either. For one thing, I seek no return. For another, I do not cheat people by transferring objects, but I create them." And "I totally create. Whatever I will, instantly materialises…" (from Spirit and the Mind, Samuel Sandweiss, p. 241).

Sathya Sai Baba also said, "There is no miracle, mesmerism or magic in what I do! Mine is genuine Divine power. Small minds and limited intellects are too weak to perceive the Divine." (Discourse on Christmas Day in 1970 at Dharmakshetra, Bombay). Strange that he claimed then that there was 'no miracle'... fraud is hardly miraculous. What Sathya Sai Baba so presumptiously calls 'small minds and limited intellects' can, however, manage to study the nature of a stone and discover that it is not at all what it is supposed to be! What is perhaps somehow near to 'miraculous'; is how so many people have been deceive and still take it all on trust, while not daring to test any of these claims by getting assays or any kind of certificates from renowned jewellers!

Common rationalisations of Sathya Sai Baba 's fraud

Some devotees impressed on me that Sathya Sai Baba has warned people NOT to take his rings and things to jewellers. Even a child should be able to guess why in reality he wants to stop this. But then children do often see some matters more clearly than mind-conditioned adults. The story circulates that, when someone who tried to sell a ring from Sathya Sai Baba, it simply disappeared. Surely just another way of hindering people from risking an objective test of their jewellery’s genuineness. The whole Sai-disinformation system runs in a neatly closed circles which appear to leave no ends untied... and - since it is an extreme kind of subtle self-deception, it is also extremely difficult to unravel oneself from it once one has woven one's life about it.

All these kinds of delusory ideas that Sathya Sai Baba has sown in devotees' minds, some once entertained briefly by me, are stubbornly upheld in the face of any amount of contrary evidence by leaders in the Sai movement like Anil Kumar of India, Art-Ong Jumsai of Thailand, Samuel Sandweiss and Al Drucker of USA, Jagadeeshan of Malaysia, Thorbjørn Meyer of Denmark and so on... Of course, they have all been ‘tested’ by Sathya Sai Baba to the point that they will swallow whole anything Sathya Sai Baba says, which is mainly why they are his trusted 'VIPs' and are rewarded with various privileges (of which they are patently very proud and make sure that everyone knows about the 'grace' they get). Besides, these people seem quite unable to face up to having to realise and admit that they have very largely been made by Sathya Sai Baba into fools who deny all common sense and reasonable counter-evidence. In the Sai dogma, not to lose faith in him makes one superior spiritually, one has 'good karma' and may well qualify for 'liberation' from rebirth etc. Good luck to those who base their lives on this uncertain promise. Otherwise, by common sense questioning one can rather get liberated from the whole delusion and open one's eyes and mind to regain a respect for facts and the truth they naturally indicate. What is more, opening the heart towards the mass of suffering people deceived by Sathya Sai Baba so thoroughly, and those who have been abused sexually etc., is almost impossible without being honest enough with oneself to investigate thoroughly.

During a visit to his Bayswater flat in London in 1987, Mr. Lucas Ralli told me that Sathya Sai Baba had once "materialised" a ring for him with a clear (white) diamond. As soon as he had lowered himself with the aid of his bunched fists to sit cross-legged on the veranda outside the interview room, the unaccustomed ring came in contact with the floor, which is of marble, and the 'diamond' split into two pieces. (Diamonds can only be split by a sharp blow, but not by the sort of pressure involved in that instance). Ralli said that Sathya Sai Baba had explained this to him the next day by saying that there was "some lapse in concentration while visualising" the product he was to bring forth. This same explanation from Sathya Sai Baba has been published by some other devotee writer who experienced a similar faulty product from Sathya Sai Baba's ‘almighty’ hand. One cannot help wondering why one who claims he is always perfect, is always in 'constantly integrated awareness', and so on and so on... can have such 'little' lapses. But lapses he certainly has, to the extent that they are becoming almost the norm... for example in his vague and non-factual discourses.

Are all Sai Baba’s ‘productions’ fakery?

Obviously, there is now all reason to doubt most strongly whether a single one of his jewellry gifts are what they are claimed to be, either by him or by many thousands of devotees. I reckon that the only likelihood of getting such a proof is if Sathya Sai Baba uses some money from his billions to buy a genuine diamond and give it someone to get it tested. The fact that, so far, all the rings that glitter at all are enclosed at the back is sufficient for us to assert that there is not a single such ring from Sathya Sai Baba with a genuine precious stone of any real  value. If official documentation from an accredited and known expert cannot be produced, could a person in full possession of their mental faculties believe otherwise? No such evidence exists. This is a rather amazing fact, one that illustrates the degree of mind control that the whole Sathya Sai Baba ‘story’ and social movement exerts on people who receive anything from Sathya Sai Baba. I have been a victim of it, despite my rigorous scientific and philosophical training and reams of critical writings I have published about the methodological failings of various sciences and others systems of thought. So come on, you are not alone.

I challenge anyone to produce a genuine article from Sathya Sai Baba worth more than, say, $500, and produce sound documentary evidence by recognised authorities to that effect. But I doubt that any devotee would dare to try to find out whether a gift from Sathya Sai Baba is a fake.

Nonetheless, it will surely surprise some that I am am still almost certain - on the basis of extended personal observation - that Sathya Sai Baba can and does carry out apports, which therefore can appear as materialisations from nothing. The amount of fraud that has been shown to be involved since astute persons began to notice legardemain and find trinkets hidden in chairs on which he sits, further indicates that Sathya Sai Baba's claims of divine creation are most unlikely to be true. That there are many phenomena connected with him, like the spontaneous appearance of ashes and nectar etc. on his pictures, I am told that he also has on occasion expressed surprise and interest when he hears of such things, for example by my friend and colleague Prof. Erlendur Haraldsson. Nevertheless he soon lays claim to many such distant phenomena as being his doing.

However, an increasing number of people have told of getting objects assayed and finding them virtually worthless junk. For example, a Dutch friend of Andries Kruger Dagneaux told that he had done this. (See ). target=_blank>http://home.helnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/andries.html). Though I am am almost certain on the basis of personal observation that Sathya Sai Baba can and does carry out apports, which therefore can appear as materialisations from nothing, the amount of fraud that has been shown to be involved since astute persons began to notice legardemain and find trinkets hidden in chairs on which he sits, indicates that Sathya Sai Baba's claims of divine creation are most unlikely to be true.

I would also remind that the Internet had an account of the Jesus figure on a small wooden cross which Sathya Sai Baba got Hislop to believe was a piece of the original wood of the cross. A magnified photo of the amulet was examined by an emeritus professor and art expert and proclaimed most likely to be a commonly manufactured amulet from 19th century UK, with visible small defects due to the mass/casting process. The hole in the top of the cross is obviously for a locket chain, not for Sathya Sai Baba's reason - i.e. hanging of the original cross from above. (See "Thefake crucifix" and also comments at http://home.hetnet.nl/ lang=EN-GB>~ex-baba/engels/articles/premanand3.html).

Further, the so-called 'little Bible' that Sathya Sai Baba pretended to 'manifest' at Christmas some years ago and claimed was unique, was identical in appearance to one sold widely in India and elsewhere, and which can even be bought at Sathya Sai Baba shops here and there, such as in Australia, according to BrianSteel's investigations. All of these 'miraculous' productions fit a pattern… the name of which must surely be 'cunning deceit'. Then there are the golden lingams that Sathya Sai Baba doubtless swallows (an oft-demonstrated yogic technique, such as by the convicted Swami Premananda and wandering fakirs) within 24 hours of Shivarathri day, and which he then regurgitates with much ado, claiming that all the gold of which it supposedly consists was present in his body all along. This last is quite preposterous.

Many long-term devotees have demonstrated that - whatever happens and however much disgrace it casts on Sathya Sai Baba - they believe it is nevertheless 'all only his divine play'. The faking, legerdemain, lying, boasting, power-seeking, sexual interferences with young men, as well as his criticising and damning his critics and worse things have been ignored by those whose faith in themselves and life has become highly dependent on continuing to believe Sathya Sai Baba is God. They cannot free themselves of the various dependencies on Sathya Sai Baba and attachments to their set beliefs which they have developed with much energy, usually over long periods of time. Anyone who speaks out against Sathya Sai Baba or believes his critics is prejudged as suffering from what Sathya Sai Baba teaches is 'a mad monkey mind' or yet worse moral conditions. But those who say this are unfortunately the ones who are trapped like monkeys with their hands in the gourd that cannot release the proverbial precious peanuts.

Devotees' praises of Sathya Sai Baba as a wonderful example to humanity and their service and other efforts have not been sufficient to stop him railing on (in a recent discourse) that 90% of them are not good devotees. How deeply misguided must the10% whom he considers 'good' actually be? The mind boggles at making an estimate. Well… after all, I should know. Quite uncalled for, Sathya Sai Baba told my wife in front of me that I was a, 'good, good, very good man' on two occasions. So perhaps he is not always so wrong, ha ha... I would hope not. I still follow him in one thing, at least, for he also told me in a private interview to, "Write, write… what you are doing is right!"

NOTE: Many articles by me examining the facts and truth about Sai Baba, his ashrams, Organisation and movement generally are to be found here.

Here is what I wrote in an earlier article about this:-

In 1986, my wife and I had two interviews, two mornings running (22nd & 23rd December). During the first private interview with us two, Sathya Sai Baba said to her, "He worries about money." True enough, at times, I admit. Yet there are few indeed who do not at some time or other. I was not worrying at all at that time, however, for I replied, "Swami, I have so much money now, more than I ever had". This was so, for I had recently inherited some money from my mother, but rich we certainly were not by any Western standards. I added that I wanted to donate money. He said I could choose what for, the medical or educational trusts, "It is not for me, but for my students," he added. Shortly after, he pointed to me and told my wife, "Good, good... very good man". Directly, he examined my hand and asked if not the ring I had was my wedding ring (it was on the right hand 3rd finger, but it was not the usual type - being of silver and gold with small inset malachite stones. A sceptic would say in retrospect that Sathya Sai Baba had been sizing up the thickness of my finger for the ring to be 'produced' next day. A minute later he said he would call us for another interview next day when he would give me a ring. Shortly after that he waved his hand before my wife as she exited from the private interview room and a silver amulet appeared, which he gave her. I have described the main part of that and the following day's interview at length in my book where I did not mention the financial aspect, for I had been led to believe that any talk about such matters involving Sathya Sai Baba was very wrong. That I had already donated by post £3000.- was discreetly not mentioned by me, nor did Sathya Sai Baba mention it. In my desire to believe in his omniscience, I thought that he must already know. It seems likely to me now that he did not. If he did, he could have been informed by his staff that a person who had donated this sum was presently at the ashram. In that case he could have given us interviews because he reckoned he might extract another donation. I do not say he did so, but that it is highly possible. The leader of our Danish group had a permanent place on the veranda and spoke with Sathya Sai Baba several times before our first interview. He is not a very astute person, one who tends to swallow whole everything he is fed by Sathya Sai Baba. He asked Sathya Sai Baba about our group and a possible interview before it took place. This leader was always very tight-lipped about what went on, and has since firmly proved his active engagement in the cover-up of scandals surrounding Sathya Sai Baba, having shown that he is a conniving, unreliable person (i.e. reliable for Sathya Sai Baba only). Since I have learned how he has earned the dislike and mistrust by almost everyone I have met who knew him, including one of his own sons who has contacted me about him! Therefore, I would not put it past him to have provided information about me and my profession to Sathya Sai Baba (just possibly unwitting as to what he was doing). In short, there is no evidence whatever to suggest that Sathya Sai Baba had any data from 'omniscience' in this instance. During the first interview Sathya Sai Baba said to me twice, "Be Ready!" I did not know to what he was referring, but later realised that it must have been the money he was expecting. Next day in the private interview, Baba soon asked me, "How much money are you going to donate?" I had not thought of this at all in the interval. A sum came to my mind - "£6,000, Swami," I said, knowing that this would make £9,000.- in all. This amounted to well over half of my inheritance. I added that the money came from my mother. He asked what her name was and I told him. He said, "I will build an indoor sports hall for the students and hers and your name will be put up on the wall." I then believed Sathya Sai Baba's claim that - due to his being omnipresent in the inner heart of everyone - he knew (or could know) all things. I did not think that he could not have known her name, but that seems fairly obvious to me now that I am convinced of his fallibility. The typical devotee will assume that Sathya Sai Baba was just pretending that he didn't know her name. This is one of Sathya Sai Baba's smartest ways of duping people, to pretend that he knows all, but behaves as if he does not. But the problem is that he pretends so much about so many things so often that in the end he loses all credibility. There is no reasoning with a person who is ensnared in the system of excuses that surrounds Sathya Sai Baba and absolves him of everything imaginable in advance. Of course, Sathya Sai Baba never did put my name or my mother's up anywhere, and I have never regretted it. I was not at all keen on the idea anyhow but would have accepted it 'if Swami wanted it'. I have always disliked boasting and telling what good things one has done... as Sathya Sai Baba used to teach and once almost followed himself. Now he has demonstrated firmly that he is the biggest braggart in the world. Incidentally, in the second day's interview, Sathya Sai Baba ‘took’ a ring with a white (clear) stone from somewhere - it was between 1 and 3 carats (the Sathya Sai Baba standard 'smaller diamond ring') and proved to be too small for my finger. "Never mind", he said. My wife and I were then taken into the private room again by Sathya Sai Baba. When we came back out, he produced the white stone ring again and sent it around to some ladies. He asked an Indian lady to describe it. She said it was a diamond set in a gold lotus ring. He confirmed both points. He then asked what I wanted and I said I did not know, so he said, "I will make you a better ring". He blew three times into his closed fist - in which he had been holding the white stone ring - and when he opened his fist, another ring with a larger green stone was there (about 5 or 6 carats). Though it crossed my mind at the time that Sathya Sai Baba seemed so eager to draw me into donating and so perhaps the whole set-up was another extremely clever Indian way of deceiving people into giving money, I immediately rejected the thought as heretical. After all, does not Sathya Sai Baba do so much for the poor, his students etc. (Since then, I have come to know that his students are mostly from well-to-do middle-class, and often power-broking, rich, families, not least sons of 'top people' from abroad). No, I put all my trust in Sathya Sai Baba and his assurances that "not a single naya paise is ever wasted", unquestionably a lie, and one repeated brazenly in a discourse even after the Central Trust was found sadly wanting in its incomplete accounts in 1993.

"It Hurts"

 

By: Jan Groenveld

From: http://caic.org.au/zhome.htm

IT HURTS to discover you were deceived - that what you thought was the "one true religion," the "path to total freedom," or "truth" was in reality a cult.

IT HURTS when you learn that people you trusted implicitly - whom you were taught not to question - were "pulling the wool over your eyes" albeit unwittingly.

IT HURTS when you learn that those you were taught were your "enemies" were telling the truth after all -- but you had been told they were liars, deceivers, repressive, satanic etc and not to listen to them.

IT HURTS when you know your faith in God hasn't changed - only your trust in an organization - yet you are accused of apostasy, being a trouble maker, a "Judas". It hurts even more when it is your family and friends making these accusations.

IT HURTS to realize their love and acceptance was conditional on you remaining a member of good standing. This cuts so deeply you try and suppress it. All you want to do is forget - but how can you forget your family and friends?

IT HURTS to see the looks of hatred coming from the faces of those you love - to hear the deafening silence when you try and talk to them. It cuts deeply when you try and give your child a hug and they stand like a statue, pretending you aren't there. It stabs like a knife when you know your spouse looks upon you as demonized and teaches your children to hate you.

IT HURTS to know you must start all over again. You feel you have wasted so much time. You feel betrayed, disillusioned, suspicious of everyone including family, friends and other former members.

IT HURTS when you find yourself feeling guilty or ashamed of what you were - even about leaving them. You feel depressed, confused, lonely. You find it difficult to make decisions. You don't know what to do with yourself because you have so much time on your hands now - yet you still feel guilty for spending time on recreation.

IT HURTS when you feel as though you have lost touch with reality. You feel as though you are "floating" and wonder if you really are better off and long for the security you had in the organization and yet you know you cannot go back.

IT HURTS when you feel you are all alone - that no one seems to understand what you are feeling. It hurts when you realize your self confidence and self worth are almost non-existent.

IT HURTS when you have to front up to friends and family to hear their "I told you so" whether that statement is verbal or not. It makes you feel even more stupid than you already do - your confidence and self worth plummet even further.

IT HURTS when you realize you gave up everything for the cult - your education, career, finances, time and energy - and now have to seek employment or restart your education. How do you explain all those missing years?

IT HURTS because you know that even though you were deceived, you are responsible for being taken in. All that wasted time..., at least that is what it seems to you - wasted time.

The Pain of Grief

Leaving a cult is like experiencing the death of a close relative or a broken relationship. The feeling is often described as like having been betrayed by someone with whom you were in love. You feel you were simply used.

There is a grieving process to pass through. Whereas most people understand that a person must grieve after a death etc, they find it difficult to understand the same applies in this situation. There is no instant cure for the grief, confusion and pain. Like all grieving periods, time is the healer. Some feel guilty, or wrong about this grief. They shouldn't -- It IS normal. It is NOT wrong to feel confused, uncertain, disillusioned, guilty, angry, untrusting - these are all part of the process. In time the negative feelings will be replaced with clear thinking, joy, peace, and trust.

Yes - It hurts but the hurts will heal with time, patience & understanding.

There is life after the cult.

Used with permission:

Copyright (c) Jan Groenveld

Chris' testimony

 

Hello.

I recently read your website. I also have a story to relay. I had an interview with Sai Baba, in which he told me and my then girlfriend to get married. However, on the way out of the interview room, quite intently, he brushed his hand against my penis, at least 2, possibly 3 times! I felt quite violated, and wondered why in the world if I was getting married he would do such a thing! I also have had some very disturbing visions of him. If you would like to use me as testimony on your website, I would be happy to.

Chris

Experiences of an ex-Sai Baba

devotee I

 

From : MUNICH, GERMANY Source : Jens Sethu - A letter to David

Subject : EXPERIENCES OF AN EX-SAI BABA DEVOTEE

(This account contains rather frightening experiences with the Puttaparthi police and the true birth place of Sai Baba.)

Hello David Bailey,

I am giving you a thorough account of my traumatic experiences with Sathya Sai Baba and hope that this will help people understand what he is all about. All the details are the truth and can be seen as testimony. I could and would testify to the following in an open court.

I am thirty-five years old and have been interested in spiritual matters since my childhood. For a long time I worshipped Jesus and Padre Pio, then after reading Yogananda’s Autobiography of a Yogi, I turned towards the yogi path.

In October 1988 I became an ardent follower of Sathya Sai Baba, and came to Puttaparthi for the first time in September 1989. Since then I visited Puttaparthi regularly every year and was totally absorbed in the aura of Sai Baba. I was fully convinced of his avatarhood and became so devoted that I was thinking and contemplating all the time about him alone.

In 1989 I read Lord of the Air by Tal Brooks (a young male USA ex-devotee who wrote of Sai Baba’s sexual abuse of him), but I did not believe it, thinking “Tal only wants to decry Baba.” I was just ignoring the facts.

Over the years I had hundreds of darshans but never an interview.

In 1993 I became a little suspicious about Sai Baba’s lifestyle and the activities in the ashram. Every year I could see costly new buildings and felt an increasing commercialisation was going on. In 1996 I saw Sai Baba leaving the ashram in an expensive Jaguar and other costly cars like Mercedes and BMWs of the big class. But I still believed him to be the Kali avatar of the age.

On 17th January 1996 I got my first interview and he was very kind telling me nice things like:

“I will give you everything,” as he touched and stroked my head. He said “I know you’re not sure about your life and future,” and so on. Also unhappiness from women. I know, don’t worry. Also you have some bad thoughts, not good.” Then he said “I give you everything according to health, spirituality and life. Everything. I give you infinite love. You and me will become one.” I touched his robe, and he put his hand on the top of my head saying “I give you separate interview.”

On 20th January 1996 I got the second interview. Already days before, he had established a strange eye-contact with me indicating the coming interview. My wife and I went to the interview and he acted very disappointed at seeing me together with my wife. He took me alone into the interview room and said, “She is diseased and much older than you. Please separate from her.” I was really shocked and replied, “She is attached to me.”

I asked him to give her some spiritual instruction, which he readily agreed to do, but he had something else on his mind.

Without asking permission, he started kissing me on my lips for some time, and later asked me to open my trousers and “materialised” some oil which he rubbed on the skin above my genitals. I felt very bad about all of this, but accepted, as I fully trusted Sai Baba.

Then he took my wife into the private interview room alone, and told her “Either you separate from the boy or I throw you out of Puttaparthi!.” He appeared wild and furious (my wife told me afterwards) and she shivered all over. When she reappeared in a very short time, looking red faced and very scared, nobody dared ask her what happened in there.

He saw me again some days later in darshan and asked whether I had separated or not. I said, ”No, not yet.” He turned away and shouted so all people could hear “Bad, Bad boy!!!” He was so aggressive and seemed to radiate such an aura of evil that I was really shocked. We immediately left and went to north India for some pilgrimage.

This was a turning point, but after a time I decided to go once more to Sai Baba to clarify the matter. At the end of 1996 I returned to India and got an interview on 4th December. In the interview he said, “Where are you from?” When I told him I was from Germany, he responded “You are also a Hitler!” Shocked, I thought to myself, “He is not very kind is he?”

Nevertheless, in the private room the greedy old man kissed me again direct and continuously on my lips for about twenty seconds, and gently stroked my back. By now I was certain that something was very wrong.

On 28th December I was again called for interview and he produced a golden ring which didn’t fit well on my finger in spite of his blowing on it. In the private chamber he said, “Come” and again kissed me on the lips for some time as before. This time I resisted and he gurgled, “Have no fear.” I said, “I have no fear.” Then he said “This is a good opportunity, so many waiting for months and will not get.” This baffled me. I’m sure people don’t wait for mouth kisses in Puttaparthi.

Then his mood totally changed and I did have some fear. He commanded me to remove my trousers, unzipped my fly and went with his right hand into my underpants. Sathya Sai Baba the divine touched and massaged my genitals unasked. He expected some erection, but this didn’t happen for I didn’t feel any sexual excitement, no lust in the presence of a seventy years old man. I was really disgusted. Then he had the impudence to say, “It is very weak, don’t waste energy.” When I looked at him I realised the truth about him and was shocked indeed. Soon afterwards, without another word, he sent me out of the room.

Back in Germany I did intense research on the internet and came across an article from Jed Geyerhahn and was very happy to have found somebody with similar experiences.

As I still had some luggage in Puttaparthi, I returned in November 1999 to collect it, taking with me two internet pages to discuss with some friends there. Unfortunately a lady came into possession of the material and took it to the Puttaparthi police station. Then I went through several interrogations with the police there.

A Mr. Reddy repeatedly asked from whom I got the material, and what would be the password. I told him India is still a democracy and I can carry whatever material I have with me, but he took no heed of my words. I told him that no password was needed to enter the net and everyone has free access to the material there. He sent me to an e-mail shop, accompanied by a policeman who waited, but the computers connected with Hydrabad are very slow, and therefore I could not enter the website.

Finally the inspector, Mr. Reddy, took my passport away and said, “Unless you give me the password and name of the person I declare you guilty and will not allow you to leave Puttaparthi.” He treated me very badly, like a criminal, especially during the last interrogation and I had several witnesses to this incident. All of this because I had been in possession of two pages which I had not even written myself.

He then walked me, my wife, and an American friend into the ashram, and once inside the gate, he again asked me the stupid question about the password. At the time I couldn’t understand why he should do so, but today I know he was showing us to some people or trustees whom we could not see or recognise.

I had another appointment on 1st November with the police, which was the day I intended to go to Delhi, but without my passport it would not be possible. On 30th October, late in the evening, two people whom I know and an unknown person came to our unit and one of them warned me that my life was in danger and I should leave immediately.

My wife and I left very early next morning for Delhi. At Dharmmavaram rail station the police were searching for us, but we entered the train at Anantapur. There is a police station near the platform which we had to pass to enter the train, and the very moment I saw that, I told my wife to go into the train separately. My wife heard a group of policemen talking about searching for somebody and caught the words “passport,”“Delhi” and "telegram" We were in serious danger but fortunately I was dressed like an Indian, and escaped identification.

So we escaped and reached Delhi, and went immediately to the German Embassy. I got a travel document after telling them of my experience, and the Embassy official said a protest note would be sent to the Indian Government. He told me such an act is illegal and they knew of similar cases.

I want to inform you that at the police station in Puttaparthi, the policeman had a bunch of both foreign and Indian passports in a drawer under a table, and once I saw them in his hand. This is just an observation, I don’t know to whom they belonged.

During this frightening time at Puttaparthi, I met an Italian couple we knew there and tried to tell them what had happened to me in interview with Sai Baba. They just closed their eyes and the lady shouted, “Be quiet!! Shut up!! Sai Baba is our God, and all the bad stories are not true!!” Then they turned away. These same people had told me many years before that they could never find any peace at the ashram, and couldn’t understand it. But they would not listen to those who know it better. Nobody can possibly imagine how I felt while all of this was happening. I suffered a lot.

I met one ex-soldier from Ruanda who is very tall and handsome. This person has also been sexually molested by Sai Baba, and he told me his story. He is married, and his Japanese wife is a fanatical Sai Baba supporter. They have one child. He totally depends on her and can see no way to get free from Sai Baba. He has been given many gifts from Sai Baba like rings, bracelet, gold watch. Sai Baba touched his testicles and massaged his genitals at least twice. The gifts look like payment for prostitution, but a prostitute and her customer have a mutual agreement, whereas the male devotees are molested against their will, and they come for a completely different purpose.

Our strong faith in Sai Baba has been misused by the same Baba, through his paedophile behaviour, and this is the most disgraceful thing he could do.

However there are many other irregularities waiting to be clarified. I also want to let you know that Baba was willing to leave Puttaparthi on 28th November 1999 for Bangalore for a heart treatment, but he didn’t because of the internet story about it. This is known to me from the police inspector who blamed me for having brought the internet pages to Puttaparthi. I have a good friend in Puttaparthi who is a shop keeper, and he had already told me that in November 1999 Baba had two heart attacks and went for treatment to Bangalore. He also said that most of the people who know about it don’t believe that Sai Baba will survive the next two years.

The Trustees are very concerned and alarmed about the internet.

Further I want to let you know (in case you do not) that Sathya Sai Baba was not born in Puttaparthi but in Karnatakka-Nagepalle village near Puttaparthi. Baba’s mother came from this place and according to tradition she has to deliver the child where she comes from. I know this from a person who was born in Puttaparthi and lived there for over forty years. The villager said it is an open secret, everyone knows it but is fearful to say it. You see, from the very beginning Baba and his followers were lying.

Please study the statement Krishna, a friend of Sai Baba’s youth, made to Erlendur Haraldsson. Never was a devotee so close to Sai Baba for such a long time as Krishna. He spent twenty-four hours a day with Sai Baba for some time. This was almost sixty years ago. Eventually Krishna left Sai Baba and went to Hydrabad. In an interview with Haraldsson, Krishna said that even in those days Sai Baba was more like a politician or chieftain of a feudal system. Krishna also said, “Whatever Baba may have, one thing he has not, and this is compassion.”

I hope that this nightmare comes to an end and I hope that by the Grace of the Almighty, all people round the globe may know about the misdeeds of Sai Baba, a mighty demon who came in the guise of a spurious saint, only interested in self-glorification, name and fame.

He is a master - of deception.

Yours sincerely,

Jens and Gurprit Sethu

My Sai history

 

By Jed Geyerhahn
JGeyerhahn@aol.com

First published May, 1997, on THE NEURAL SURFER:

http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/saiessay.html

My Sai history is what would really be compelling about my word against Sai Baba. I have received 3 rings, many interviews and lots of personal attention. I was a very close friend of Hal Honig, an aquaintence to Sam Sandweiss and others. These names may not be familiar to you, but they are prominant names in Sai circles. My aunt is Elizabeth Elwell, a well known Bhajan teacher, who lived in the Puttaparti Ash Ram for 9 years, and is still active in the organization in New Hampshire. I have rings, a pictures of me with baba, and could get more witness accounts of sleight of hand. As I said, I just need to get this stuff together, and I am very excited for this oppurtunity...

My first witness account of sleight of hand was in Brindaven. I saw Baba come out of the personal interview room and sit down. As he was sitting there, I noticed a large gold watch under his small hand, which he was unsuccesfully trying to hide. A moment later he made the familiar circular motion with his hand as if he were materialising the object, and then gave a student the watch. On another occasion, I saw Sai Baba reach between the cushions of hischair for something, and then moments later he made the circular motion and showed everyone a small container filled with vibhuti, the gray ash. I then noticed that behind the cushion in his chair there was something shiny, and he paid careful attention to correct the position of the cushion to hide the object. Another time I saw him take a worn bracelet from a man, then with his hand cupped blew on it three times at the same time moving his hand up and down. On the final movement, he tossed the chain into the side of his chair so it slid down between the inside of the chairs large arm and his leg. He then discreetly took took something from his other hand and made the circular motion and gave the man a new bracelet. What is really funny about that situation is that Sai Baba forgot to take the old bracelet from his chair when he left, so when he got up, there it lay in plain view for everyone in the room. A student I was with, and who was very devoted to Baba, picked it up and looked at it, confirming that it was the old bracelet. When Baba returned and noticed his mistake, he scolded this student, who was sitting right at the foot of Baba's chair and could not miss the bracelet. Then Baba sat and in a flash picked up the bracelet and very discreetly tossed it into the outside upper corner of the arm of the chair. There were no visible pockets there, but there is a very large seem, and the arms of the chair are huge enough to store lots of things.

It is also well known that prominant figures in the Indian government make fairly frequent stops to visit with Sai Baba, including the president of India. (I was in India when the president came to visit Sai Baba. When this happens there is huge comotion and Indians crowd darshan to see the president, not Sai Baba). The students also know that Sai is a hoax, that he does not materialise a thing. However, they are getting a very inexpensive education, so they keep there mouths shut. The student I talked with most, would not tell me other things that he knew, but I am sure that it had to do with the students who spent the night with Baba. I know this because this is where he would no longer answer my questions. Everyone knows that Sai Baba has students spend the night with him. They stay up to "serve" him at night. It's a very well kept secret as to how they serve Sai Baba, but little will come out because no student wants to be kicked out of Sai Baba's school. As stated, they are receiving a very good educations there, very inexpensively. I say very inexpensively because many believe it to be free, but this is not the case. Students pay for room and board, which to many is rather expensive. The education part is free, but there are bills.

This brings me to my very questionable experiences with Sai Baba. On my second trip to Sai Baba I had four interviews. Each time I saw Baba, his hand would gradually make more prominant connections to my groin. The first interview was a slight swipe, the second a definite touch and the third time he grabbed me and with a very stern face looked me directly in the eye and said "you are very weak!" Needless to say, he scared and embarassed me. I was guilt ridden to have sexual passion, though I was a healthy 16 year old boy, a testosterone machine. I was not going to talk to anyone about the experience. In the final interview he asked me to take my pants down. I was totally confused, so he took them down for me. He then made vibhutti and rubbed it on my genitals. On my third trip, he did the same thing, but rubbed oil on my genitals. Fortunately, I was never taken advantage of any worse, but I was humiliated when I realised his true intentions, and I felt I had really lost an innocence that I would have cherished keeping.

When I finally did talk about what happened to me, the first two reactions were to never speak of it with others because the whole thing would be taken out of context and misconstrued. Then I talked to others my own age and they told me of similiar experiences. I even heard terrible stories of children who would meet with Sai Baba twice a week to play "sex games" and the like. Oral sex and masturbation were common in these meetings. Many of my own friends told me about attempts by Sai Baba to touch them, but they wouldn't let him. I need to really put this together better, but this is a sketch of what I have. Any comments would be helpful, and you can do what you like with any of this material. You can also post my email address for anyone who like to contact me (JGeyerhahn@aol.com). I would be very greatful to talk with any X-devotees who have had similiar experieces with Sai Baba. It might encourage me to get this all together quicker, and they might help me put something larger together.

Sincerely,

Jed

View/Share this post only

Statement of an fifteen year old

victim

 

What follows here, is a truthful description, of the malicious actions from Sai Baba, being done on a 15 year old boy. You can read the letter in its original handwriting, but you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open these files, download is possible from:

ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/acrobatreader/win/4.x/ar405eng.exe

1. Page 1
2. Page 2
3. Page 3
4. Page 4

 

Interviews with Sai Baba

Monday September 20, 1999

Interview # 1

After he called me, I went on the verandah, and motioned to mom. She came, & we sat down. After a while, I realized that Papa had not followed me. I got up and went back to look on the men's side. I examined the crowd, Baba even passed right in front of me as I searched. I didn't see Papa. I quickly went back to the verandah & sat down.

Swami came.

"Where is your father?"- I couldn't find him. "GO!" (I went to look again. I stayed there as long as I could hoping Papa would see me when I realized that people were soon going into the interview room, I came back. Inside, a lady asked: ) Please, Baba, can I have a chair?

(Baba went into the private, inner room) "Come here, boy." (I went inside and while gently pressing and rubbing on my groin with the back of his hand, he said: "Here is the chair. Take one chair." (In the outer room, he sat down.)

"Where is your father?" I looked all over for him. (he glared at me.)  "Lazy. Lazy boy!" "And Mother?" - there. (to mom, asked: ) "How is this boy? He is not studying well. Eating, (with hand motion) goes round, round, round." (He got up, & gave me a long, fierce look.)

"Don't do like this!" (He took the Italian group into the private room. When finished with them, he said to mom:  ) "come on." (I started getting up.) "not you." (After less than a minute, they came out.)
"Come on this boy." (Inside, he took me into the corner.) "Look here, you are a good boy. But, (pointing with his thumb to the other room) sometimes, with her."

"Sometimes you are not having good thoughts, good ideas. You don't study well. Not good memory. I will give you good memory."(He started to wave his hand in circles, and suddenly, - stopped. With apprehension I thought he had changed his mind. I was relieved when he continued waving. When he turned his hand up, there was nothing in his palm. Then I saw his fingers shimmering. He was slippery rubbing them together. ) "Oil," he said. "Open." (He started lifting my shirt; I lifted it up, thinking he wanted to rub it on my navel. Then, with his left hand, [his right was full of oil.] he motioned downwards with his fingers. I understood. I untied my pants. He lifted my penis, put his fingers at the base of it, and started rubbing the oil into me. It didn't hurt, but he was making a motion as if he was pinching me there repeatedly with his fingers.

He stopped, and waved his hand again. I guess he made some more oil. He resumed rubbing. With his other hand, he drew me close. He rubbed some more, and drew me closer. I could hear him murmuring some things, so I turned my ear towards him so I could catch what he was saying. He again pulled me tighter towards him this time by the waist, until my crotch was right by the side of his leg, and our chests were almost touching. I had my chin on his right shoulder both arms around him, his hair touching the side of my face, the front of my pants down.

It was so bizarre. I could now feel him pulling the base of my penis back and forth. It felt kind of good. He finally let me go, and I pulled my pants up.) (He looked at me and said: ) "Don't tell anyone. Don't tell Mother. She worries. Tomorrow and the next day, I will give interview. I will give, (he traced his
finger on my chest,) a chain."

Thursday September 23, 1999

Interview # 2

After asking me whether both of my parents were present, he took my letter and told me to GO. I waved to Papa and walked to the verandah. Mom had seen me get up. She met me on the porch. Papa came and sat next to me. When Baba arrived, he shook his hand at mom telling her to go away. She was slow to leave.

During the interview, while talking to Papa, he said about Mom: "She is a good lady; a good devotee."

He turned to me and asked: "What do you want?" - A chain. "A chain? Or Swami?" - Swami! "Yes, (he pointed to his palm) what is here?" Your hand, Swami. "NO, what is here?" (I took my guess)  - the universe? "Is there nothing? Or everything?" Everything! "Good boy!"(he waved his hand, a metal watch came tumbling out.)

"See? Everything! What is the time?" (he looked at the clock) "Three-ten." (He set the watch, then pointed to my times watch "this, no good! Plastic watch! Take it off." (he replaced it with his, on my left wrist. It was way too big.) "Oh, small hand! Take off two links." (He took Papa into the private room for a minute or so, then called me. Papa left. As soon as we got inside, he pulled me close, gave me a big hug, and started untying my pants. He dropped them to the ground, then pulled my underwear below my butt. He grabbed my penis, and while hugging me again, started masturbating the base of it. He kept repeating "Purification. Purification." I felt his other fingers grip around my crack and pull me closer, uptight. I held him tight in return. He turned his right cheek to me, I kissed it, with his prompting. He turned his mouth towards me, I gave him my cheek. He turned my head and kissed me on the mouth for a long time. When h stopped, I started to pull up my pants. He made sure my shirt didn't get stuck in the knot, and straightened me out. He kept telling me: )

"This is good chance; good chance; look, there are so many people outside. They all want to be here. It's your good luck." "Sometimes you are wasting money. Sometimes mother doesn't give. There's no income." (He waved his hand and out popped six 500 rupee bills. He counted them [Rs. 3000]) "For food. Spend it. keep it inside. Inside! (I put it in my wallet.) Don't tell anyone!" even Mother? "Mother you can tell." And father? "not father." "I will give you good life, good future I will keep you well, (he counted on his fingers) physically, mentally, financially. If you ever need money, .. Or dollars, come to me." thank you, Swami! "Don't thank me. I am everything. See? (he pointed to his palm)
everything is here!" "I am Shivashakthi." What? "Shivashakthi. I am Shakthi."

(He took my hand and pressed it to his crotch. He moved it up and down, side to side, there was absolutely nothing there.) "See? Nothing! Nothing!" (He let go of my hand and snapped his fingers, then again took my hand.) "See? Now I am Shiva!" (this time, my fingers touched a penis.)

"I will give Shivaroopa." What? "I will show shivaroopa." "take namaskar." (I went down and kissed his feet, then came up on my knees.) "take it." (He lifted his robe up to his knees. I put my hand on his knee.) "Sparshan!" (He pressed my head to his penis. I put my cheek on it.)  "Linganamaskar!" (I kissed it. He lifted his robe higher and higher. I first saw his nuts. They were very dark coloured. Then his penis. I saw a drop of liquid on the tip; he wiped it off with his thumbnail.)  "Take it!" (I held it. I kissed it. I could feel him pushing on my mouth. It opened slightly. It slipped inside. He subtly moved his hips back and forth enough times [7] that I lost count. He finally took it out, and I got up. He kissed me on the mouth. He put his tongue out. I just barely opened my lips, but kept my teeth clenched. It slipped in between my lips and my teeth. I moved and he got saliva on my right cheek. We left the private room.)

(He pointed to me steel bangle on my right arm.) "What is this?" I got it in varanasi. Why do you wear this?"- I like it. "But swami makes nice things. - in gold! You don't like swami's things?" Yes, I do! ( He waved his hand, and there was a gold bracelet, with three identical symbols on it. I started to take the bangle off. "no, don't take it off." (he put the bracelet on me while saying: ) "Protection! Protection! This is trimurthi. (he pointed to each symbol) Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva." (he again pointed to the bangle.)  "See this one? It is cheap! You can get it anywhere. Even beggars wear it!" Should I take this one off, Swami? "If you like it, you can keep it." [The bracelet he gave me is too small. It leaves painful marks in my skin and I can't wear it.] (He took the Russian group inside; as they came out one by one, he stood by the door. As a particular young man passed, Baba pressed and vibrated the back of his hand on the man's groin, just as he did to me in the last interview while I was getting the chair and twice in our interview of March 25, 1998 in Brindavan.)

(after he sat down, he asked me: ) "What are you studying?" Home school & correspondence. "Home school?" Yes, I'm learning with my father & mother. "School is better!" Which school, swami? "Any school. But if you're good, (with a slow smile,) my school!" When, Swami? "Not now, in June. "Where are you staying? The end of Samadhi road. "Outside? Why not inside?" Um, because we found a place outside. "Outside is no good. Why not inside?" Because we don't have your permission. "Do you need swami's permission?"

"I will give another interview with father and mother. Sit there, on the path,
every day."


I certify that what I have written above is a truthful and accurate description of what happened in my two interviews with Sathya Sai Baba on Sept. 20 and Sept. 23, 1999.


May 1, 2000.

 

1999 - WHEN I MET SAI BABA

 

Date: 08-29-05

By: Gabriel M.

Email: click here

Source: http://www.saibabaexpose.com/gabriel.htm

I was one of the participants in 1999. One of the spiritual seekers who went to India to visit Sai Baba and his ashram. In this connection, the reading of “Behind the clown’s mask”, by Conny Larsson, was a bit like a regression in time - like a journey with a time machine.

I was the one who was described as the pimply guy with Arabian origin. A funny pseudonym description, as I don’t have pimples and also have a Finnish origin (translator note: “finne” in Swedish means both pimple and a Finnish man)

Guided but misled, step by step

After having read Conny’s book, I am reminded of all those things which must have happened in the vicinity of Sai Baba, and of which millions of devotees from all parts of the world have no knowledge at all. It is true that it was the first time I visited Sai Baba, but is was quite enough to me today for understanding how easy it is to be mislead by so-called spiritual authorities, and in that process to stop questioning the facts in exchange for the belief in illusions. That’s how you choose step by step to stop listening to your own intuition and common sense.

This period of time after I had finished high school was one of spiritual seeking. I recognize quite a lot in Conny’s descriptions in his book, according to his meetings with Sai Baba. For example Conny describes his thoughts in the beginning, when he first met Sai Baba: “Oh dear, he is feminine”. I also thought things like that when I saw Sai Baba for the first time, but more like “oh dear he looks like a junkie”. I got those thoughts in the beginning, as I thought that he moved around a little jerkily, like some junkies may do, when he was floating around on the red velvet carpet with his voluminous hair.

But I banished those thoughts all the time, as I felt it was wrong to think like that, something you ought not to think about an avatar ( God incarnated in human form.)

Another thing that confused me was when Sai Baba, at our first meeting, said to me that I have silly thoughts sometimes. As I didn’t understand what he meant with that, I felt offended by his statement, which continued not to make any sense to me. It also felt strange that he declared those things to the whole Swedish group. The fact that this man declared those things to the only persons you had in your vicinity for the moment, had an isolating effect. People also expected Sai Baba to be the one who knew, who had the most profound knowledge, even about ourselves. Of course, he had, as he was an avatar, a god in human form. So we believed anyhow. How can so many people be wrong at the same time? I banished this incident with the excuse that Sai Baba must be able to understand my thoughts in a better way than I myself was able to, if he was an avatar, an omniscient god.

Paradoxically, this made me still more gullible, as I banished my own thoughts and my intuition. The individual intuition had to give place to the collective view, and the paying of respect to the person Sai Baba. For how is it possible, for so many, to be wrong, at the same time.

I remember how I sometimes used to leave the ashram and have tea with the Indian and Tibetan salesmen; with them I felt at home. Those salesmen were ordinary business men with humour, quite ordinary people, and with them I could be myself, joke and think for myself.

During my stay in the ashram, I didn’t get a lot of energy, on the contrary, I felt more uncritical, dazed and muddled; it was rather difficult to have a clear vision.

Those things I considered even then, but I banished those thoughts with further excuses.

The fact that I felt out of sorts, I excused with the thought that it could not be due to Sai Baba.

Because of that, I paid no attention to my own feeling concerning the situation, as I thought that it was some sort of process I went through. Sai Baba was supposed to influence our energy and I thought that my scarcity of energy was perhaps due to ”energy processes”. It was said that Sai Baba influenced our slumbering kundalini energy.

Kundalini is a power, which according to tantric yoga tradition, is supposed to lie latent as a sleeping worm in the spine. During certain circumstances, it is supposed to be active and rise from a place near the genitals, upwards along the spinal column to the head. If a person's energy centres are in a bad condition and filled with impurity, the kundalini raising is supposed to be very hurtful and trying. Kundalini is supposed to be the same sort of energy as the sexual creative energy, only in a more sublime form. Many yogis think that you ought not try to influence this energy, but I supposed that this happened in a natural way in the contact with an avatar.

Shared 'private' interview with Sai Baba behind the curtain of shame

In his book, Conny tells us what happened, during what I believed was his last private visit behind ”the curtain of shame”.

For me it was the first time Baba called me privately, and fortunately also the last one. When I read the book, I realized that Conny and I had interpreted the situation in a little different way, due to Sai Baba’s attempt to lead Conny astray.

In his book Conny describes, how he and I were called to come behind “the curtain of shame” by Baba.

The moment before, I had got a ring of pretended gold, produced by magic. (which I got later than is described in the book; that is I got it just a moment before Conny and I was called behind “the curtain of shame.)

I felt like a chosen one and well favoured and thankful, for having had something “materialized” for me, and now I had high expectations.

What happened inside there made me confused, and I was unprepared. When we came into the room behind the curtain, Sai Baba suddenly turned his back against me. Sai Baba was now standing between Conny and me, and obstructed the view between us. I remember now retrospectively that Conny asked something like “how about the boys”, and Baba said something like “only small-minded”. I didn’t understand what they talked about, and the whole situation was strange and incomprehensible. I moved forward to Conny and Sai Baba, as it is unnatural to stand behind someone's back. I remember in a hazy way that Sai Baba was occupied with some sort of strange movement before me and I moved instinctively around to make us stand in a circle, which I felt more natural. But Sai Baba turned his back against me again and waved to me to stay there, and suddenly he pinched my penis so I was not able to move away. Conny thought that Baba now had started to give me massage. But instead he pinched the head of my penis in a rough way. This pinch was hurtful, and kept me behind Sai Baba's back. At the same time, Sai Baba pulled his foot before Conny for him to kiss in a traditional way; a sort of blessed act.

Again I interpreted an incomprehensible act with the help of a still more confused logic. I supposed absurdly enough that what he did to me was some sort of advanced energy healing. The pinch felt like a clothes peg and I supposed that it was something about kundalini. I thought that this pinch was like a thing reminding me of the kind of peg you use when you transfer energy from one car machine to another, when you have an engine failure, to get the machine to start again. Even if the whole thing felt rather strange and surprising, I didn’t suspect then what it was about, or what would be the result.

A rather funny memory is, how surprised I was, when I watched Conny on his way out from “the curtain of shame” with a crafty smile, steeling or taking some vibuthi packets, with the so called “holy ash”, which Sai Baba was known to materialize, and which was supposed to have healing energies.

It was not until later, after having heard other peoples stories of a sexual character that I realized that it was not just about little pinches with the best of intentions, or with healing purpose.

It was the first and the last time I visited Sai Baba’s ashram. After this period I finished to be a spiritual seeker. My trust in authorities disappeared. After all, I am rather happy for what I have learned. After having talked to the arranger of the new age association who had introduced Sai Baba to me, I immediately stopped visiting the association. The arranger of this association didn’t give any response at all to those incidents and rumours about Sai Baba.

On the contrary he paid no attention to those new facts, and defended them as if all of us exaggerated. I was annoyed and surprised at such a spiritual awkwardness and immediately stopped my contacts with the association. A dangerous view, as in a fuzzy and irresponsible way, it paid no attention to all those innocent people who are exposed to Sai Baba’s manipulations and exploit, and the suffering they have to go through. I understand that Conny must have felt a frustration of the same kind with all those people who have not accepted the boy’s and his own account.

The book “Behind the Clowns Mask” has got an important message to spiritual seekers, who have gone astray and have lost something: How important it is to remain yourself and keep on listening to your intuition. I was happy when I heard about this new book, in which the truth about Sai Baba is revealed by a person who knows what he is talking about, and who also has got the courage to break free. It cannot have been easy. Well done!

 

Personal experiences from

Hans de Kraker

 

From: Australia

Source: Hans de Kraker

Subject : PERSONAL EXPERIENCES

Date: Friday, 19 May 2000

From: Hans de Kraker

Re: Sai Baba

 

Dear David, Faye and Glenn,

Long time no hear! Finally I have taken the time to put some of my experiences with The Great Deceiver on paper. I really appreciate what you are doing. I think it is absolutely vital what you are doing because a lot of harm is being done and this needs to stop. Not doing what you are doing defeats the purpose of all those years of travel to India. We all went there to find the truth after all.

As I had told you I travelled to India extensively for a period of 4 years. During this period (1992 - 94) I had many (35) private audiences with Sai Baba.

I got to know him in 1988 through a friend, in Italy who had passed on a book. After about four years I made my first trip to India with my girlfriend, mother and father. The years that followed were making for some very intense years in my life. Sai Baba fairly much from the first private audience had suggested to me and my girlfriend that we were to split up from eachother for our own good. He did this in a very public and embarrassing way, purposely humiliating my girlfriend and myself. We had built a lot of "faith and mystery" around him and had by now accepted him has a God incarnate on earth, the epitome of spirituality, the epitome of human divine spiritual expression.

There were many books written by people from all parts of the world that spoke about miracle after miracle. People had cured from fatal diseases by virtue of touching jewellery "materialised by Swami". He "appeared" in front of people in all different parts of the world. Millions of people travelled to India to see "God on Earth". Millions of People came and cried upon his sight, some were cured of their illnesses, some freed of their anxieties of life and some died in peace. Some left laden with trinkets or real golden rings, watches, pendants, all materialised by "Swami".

Sai Baba has been enjoying a lot of popularity in the West. He has a great ability to play with and communicate to large crowds of people. It is this particular power that allows him to manipulate people.

It takes a Great Man not to abuse this power...

During these four years of travels to India, Sai Baba would perform a certain ritual each time he would call me in for a private audience or interview. He would ask me to take down my pants. He would than "oint" my umbilical area; testicles and penis with oil which he "materialised". After this ritual he would ask me to pull up my pants and tidy them up. I had heard of this ritual and it seemed to be "common knowledge" that this was done to balance the sexual energy or Kundalini. I had never thought anything of it. When I was in Elementary School in Holland, the school doctor used to check and touch your testicles to see if you were growing properly. I likened this ritual to a visit to the doctor. It was just for a different purpose. Very unassumingly I continued to receive this treatment, convinced it was going to do me some good!

Each and every trip he would "materialise" trinkets, jewellery, "vibhuti" and oil. I noticed that he was particularly generous with the people that donated a lot of money or equipment for the various kitchens in the Ashram. I did also notice that he would call in a lot of young guys out of the crowd and never girls.

In one particular interview, I saw him take a ring from under the handkerchief that was on the armrest of his chair. I thought not much of it. I never really attached much value to the materialisations and knew that the receiver was going to be an ecstatically happy person... Shortly after, one of my friends in the group said to me: " Gosh, what a test! Swami wanted to show me that he did not materialise the ring, but that he took it from under his handkerchief! Isn't he funny! He is really testing us!" I did not give it any focus; I never had focused much on these materialisations and the thought of accepting that he was not actually materialising these objects was probably very unattractive tough for my mind. I had also received a ring, two bracelets and a necklace so I guess I had satisfied that desire!

Through the years I got more and more attention on a personal level from Sai Baba. This went accompanied with receiving VIP seating for doing work in the kitchen. As the crowds grew over the years it became increasingly difficult to see "Swami" up close. There was a preferred seating area for people who worked in the kitchen since they were not able to "do the lines". They often worked until 30 minutes before Darshan. Arriving that late they would always find themselves sitting in the back of the large crowd, so by getting this "reserved seat" they were able to every now and then have a close encounter with "the Master".These groups were organised in lines of two or three and rotate so that everybody got a fair chance.

Although initially I was very much against this way of operating, I succumbed to my desire to get a close encounter with the "Master" and accepted a preferred seat the third time it was offered to me. After two years I had become a "steady member" of a group that would travel to India three times a year, to do volunteer work in the Ashram. The group would cook food for upto 6000 people around the festivals and various multi-religious celebrations (Christmas, Shivaraatri etc) The group would bring thousands of kilo's of food at its own expense as well as a lot of industrial kitchen machinery etc. There were many other groups that brought help in some form or shape and it was beautiful to be part of this enormous "collective effort".

Our group had a place of its own. We did not have to wait in line and had always-front row seating. On some occasions (on Festivals and Celebrations) we were even allowed to sit on the veranda. We would always get to see "Swami" from up-close and feel very fortunate.

The ego was certainly satisfied with this powerful position! So many people wanted to be close to him. Millions of people travelled to get a glimpse of him and here we were right up front! It is incredible how the mind comes up with justifications when it suits our personal purpose.

During one of the last visits, there was a young guy who had travelled with us from Italy. He had not been to India before. He accompanied his girlfriend and her father, who was part of the group. Shortly after we arrived in the Ashram we got our usual immediate welcome interview in which Sai Baba was briefed on what we had brought from home as well as our personal, business and daily life problems

Sai Baba called in this particular young man again, a few days later by him self. He was given a watch! "Swami" had materialised a watch for him! He came to me fairly shortly after and was quite shocked (like most people were, all for their own different reasons). He asked me to explain him something;"Swami hugged me, and then kissed me, on the lips and tried engage me by probing my mouth with his tongue". When I heard I was very shocked. This young boy (18/19) was quite confused and asked me what I thought of it. He had thought of Kundalini and that it was to "balance his energy". I did not know. I told him that that could be the case but that I did not know.

We both talked about it for some more time. I told him about the ritual that I had been going through over the past years and this was maybe something in that line...

On one of our trips to India I remember bringing so much, we thousands of kilos of overweight. Among the things the group brought were watches. These hundreds of watches were destined to go to the students. Not long after arriving we brought some of the things we had brought to the front door of the Poornachandra, in front of Sai Baba's house. I very kind gentleman would be from who the offerings came and that Sai Baba was expecting them (especially after the attempt on his life there was a very strict security control).

Only a few weeks later, I encounter a student, who proudly tells me that his watch was materialised by Sai Baba! He was as happy as I was astounded. And again I decided to stuff the thoughts I had away, saying to myself that it was great that this boy was so happy and that the philosophy was what was important and not where this watch came from. I decided that that which was instilled in this boy through this gift was going to help him in life to be the person that he aspired to be. In that same period a friend approached an another person of our group from Europe who had received that same watch. He had asked my friend why he got that watch...

During another trip a friend came along who was ill with cancer. She wanted to give an ambulance to the hospital. She was included in the group by the leader of our group. It was suggested that buying an ambulance was to complicated. So she donated a large sum of money. The next day she got an interview on which she received a "materialised ring".

In my last trip to India (November of 96), I arrived early from Australia and my friends from Europe had not arrived yet. The usual kitchen managers were no longer running the kitchen. Upon arrival, Sai Baba asked me to reopen the Western Canteen and start making food for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. I collected a group of people, (was ordered/recommended by ashram management not to allow any Sri Lankans in the kitchen! All people I appointed were screened by the management) and started working. Several days later, my friends from Europe joined me.

We had several interviews together. It was around the 10th of December that they left, except for one of my close friends. We spent some beautiful moments together. It was almost as if we were like the apostles around Jesus. We were moved even further ahead now and we were seated in the ashram management area, very close to the front. Sai Baba came to us every and each Darshan and would have a chat with us. These were very special moments. We felt very privileged.

The day of my friend’s departure, we were called in for an interview together. Sai Baba materialised another bracelet for my friend and for me. In this same trip he had "materialised". (One of my friends was "tested' and saw him bring the object from the neighbouring room) a jar of amrith, "divine nectar" with a spoon which he used to give us all a spoon after which he said; "From now on no more bad karma and no more bad luck in your life" "You are very special people, this is a privilege! There are so many people out there and you are the lucky ones!" When I asked him why he said that all our hearts were pure and that there was not self interest involved in the work we did (we had many power struggle and quarrels over positions in the group, just like any other group of humans may have).

My friend had now left. I was by myself and was called in a few days after he had left. I went into the interview room and was given a private audience in a separate room. When in this separate room, he asked me how things were in Australia. He told me that he would give me every thing, money, a house, a wife EVERYTHING!

He then signed me to come closer and hug him.

He had earlier that trip asked me to kiss him on the cheek, while I was helping him getting something from a room adjacent to the interview room. This was a little room where he kept his gowns. It was his custom to give a gown to people for healing purposes (it was common believe that "hugging" a gown could cure a disease), or when they had opened one of his centres. He asked me to help him get something from that room. While leaning over to get something from a lower shelf in the closet, when rising he pointed at his cheek, indicating that he wanted me to kiss him. I did so, very surprised and kind of suspicious. I come from a country though where man and women irrespective of sex, kiss each other on the cheek three times. So after my first suspicion, relativised everything back to normal (I am still amazed today, how far ones mind can go!)

So back to that moment where he asked me to come closer. He then hugs me ( I am on my knees and he is seated on his chair-there are no people present). He now turns his face and puts his lips on mine; my head his spinning and my mind is running at 500 kilometres per hour. I don't know what to do! My mouth tightens up, and I feel extremely uncomfortable and confused with this "perceived incarnation of GOD on earth trying to kiss me on and in my mouth!! Sai Baba slaps me on my cheek and says "Loosen up!!! With other people not OK with Sai Baba OK " I am even more uncomfortable now and feel disgusted at the same time.

Sai Baba realised his and my predicament and decides not to continue. He now tells me again that he will give me everything and stands up and tells me to do padnamnamaskaar. As I go on my knees, and touch his feet with my forehead, he pulls up my arms and indicates he wants his calf muscles massaged. Although very uncomfortable with everything that had happened I still continued to listen to him. Many people knew how he liked having his calve muscles massaged and I had seen respectable men and women of all walks of life do the same thing....he now takes my head and pushes it quite firmly into his groin...he then pulls up my arms and asks me to go higher and higher and higher...NOW I AM HOLDING HIS BUTTOCKS AND WONDER WHAT THE HELL MY DIVINE MASTER IS ASKING ME TO DO!!! Fuse!!! Crash! I let go my arms and now I am even more shell shocked...he pulls up his dress, presents me his half-erect penis and invites me to take up my "Good Luck Chance":

"This is your Good Luck Chance"

I am now on my knees facing his erect penis, being asked to perform oral sex. He stands there, and I think:

AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS?

COULD I DO THIS?

-.....-

I then instinctively stretch out my right arm and put on the part of his chest which hides his heart and say:

"I don't want this Swami, I want your heart"

He now drops his dress and tells me: "Yes yes yes of course you have my heart"

He now asks me to take my pants down, "discovers" my penis is not erect and tells me that that is how it is supposed to be!

"Swami is inside there see, Swami is inside there."

Hell NO! That is Mine and Mine! And you are certainly not in there!

I thought

 He asks me to do Padnamnamaskaar again

and again

he pulls up his dress

"This is your second Good Luck Chance" he said.

I refuse and get up without saying anything. I am now angry, confused and dazed. I feel burning! God just took a backdoor! A very clever manipulator and professional deceiver had just trashed the fundamentals of the past eight years of my life. I had abstained from any sexual activity because he had suggested it was good for my spiritual Evolution. He had harassed and embarrassed my girlfriend and myself because of our difference in age, while he was hitting on someone 42 years his junior...He had told us to break up our relationship and for what reason?! So he could have a go?!?!

In reality I pulled the carpet myself from under a mental castle which I had built myself. I am responsible for that, he is for abusing the good faith of people, their trust, to the point of putting their life on the line and actually loosing it

Devastation

Devastation

He asked me to keep this quiet, to not say anything to anyone

I walked out of the interview room and run to my room.

I lock myself in.

I black out until 6am the next morning (from 5 PM the day before)

The next morning people that apparently came to my room and knocked approached me on the door.

Someone had called Europe even and told the leader of the group. I got a call from her the morning after. She expressed concern and told me people had seen me walking out of the interview room all pale…then they tried the apartment but I had locked myself in. She asked me what had happened. "Did he try to have sex with you" I told her that it was something between him and me. I did not want to talk about it.

The first few days after I sit in darshan at a distance, not wanting to be close. I look at the masses and masses of people and wonder how he manages to handle all these people."Who are you!" I ask myself...a few weeks pass…. I get another interview with a group of Germans / Russians. My attention is elsewhere and Sai Baba monitors every move of my eyes. I see his ring trick and how he tosses the old ring between the pillow and the armrest of his seat. I look at this Older Russian lady who is crying while she sits in front of him. He is playing the crowd, and all of a sudden the GODhead has become a bad trickster. In the mean time the group has arrived from Europe and we are all working hard in the kitchen. I had thrown myself in the work to forget something, which I was trying to refuse to accept: reality.

There was a big power shake up in the kitchen and I had no interest to participate in the whole situation any longer. I had a chat with the leader of the group because I had not been going to darshan anymore. My last day in the ashram I talked to the leader of the group. Again she insists that I tell her what happened." So did he try to have sex with you?" was the question. Tired of it all I told her what had happened. This was the evening of the fourth or fifth of January. Immediately after she has an interview with Sai Baba, by herself this time, without the rest of the group. After she comes out of the interview room, several hours later, I am summoned to an elderly gentleman from Security, whom I knew well, with whom I had build a friendship.   Several years before, when I accompanied a couple from Europe, who did not speak any English, he had spent time with this couple, their three-year-old son, who had cancer and me.  This gentleman looked very awkward and asked me if he could take my photo. I said of course not knowing what was happening, understanding something had gone wrong. He was accompanied by 2 seva dal's. One them took a picture from the front and then asked me to turn to the side. When I asked my friend what was happening he nodded uncomfortable and said I don't know.

They then escorted me to the secretary of the Ashram who told me I was ordered to leave as soon as possible. I had behaved improperly and had to leave. When I asked what the reason was he commanded that I was not allowed to ask anything, and that I was only allowed to leave. "You are to leave the Ashram. You are strongly advised not to hang around the village, to go as soon as possible to Bangalore and catch the first flight out...

I left.

All my friends of the group were absolutely amazed and destroyed when they heard that I had been expelled. Except for one person...the same person who spoke to Sai Baba a few hours before.

So they got rid of a possible "loose cannon"

But what about the miracles?

But what about the prophecies that describe a man like him?

But what about the dreams I had with him? (It is common believe that when one dreams of Sai Baba, it is actually him willing it. You cannot dream of him if he does not will it. When you dream of him, it is actually him coming to you, and hence , a special grace.)

But what about the "materialisations"?

Self Interest has no boundaries. The mind finds all reasons to justify means to reach, or maintain a purpose.

But what about the three year old boy?

Now what of that three-year-old boy that Sai Baba said he would cure? What about the fact that he had said to the parents (I was their personal translator) that they should not bring their child to the hospital anymore? They should not worry anymore about the therapy, "I will take care of him and cure him".

But what about the fact that the three year old boy died 6 months later from the disease?

What about the fact that he had promised two friends (father and son) in our group a lingam to cure the disease of the mother. And he promised a second time in a second trip they made. Now the son was sick and had constant fever. How about the fact that Sai Baba still had not given them this lingam, the mother was still sick and now he promised that he would cure the son and not to take the medicine? How about the fact that they went back again some 6 months later and said to Sai Baba that he could not work without taking the pills because he could not work with 39 degrees fever. And what about the fact that Sai Baba insisted that "it is only Body Heat, don't worry, I will take care of you". "Don't take the medicine", he repeated.

But what about the fact that he died several months later?

What about the fact that when you give money you get a nice seat on the veranda, or that you can buy Sai Baba's attention by making big donations (you have to make sure though you pass all your personal details through to the right people)

But what about the fact that you are likely to get attention if you are male and good looking?

But What about the fact that he talks about abstaining from sex but has a go whenever he can?

And what about the fact that he breaks up a relationship to then hit on the male?

And what about the fact that he tells the a big group of people that the perfect age difference between two people is 3 to 4 years: quote;"Unlike the guy in kitchen with the long hair who is going out with a seventy year old women and all he does it for is the money."  But then for him, 72 years of age it is OK to ask sexual favours from a guy who is 44 years younger?

And what about this COMPULSIVE DECEPTION?

I took me 3 years.

And I don't expect any genuine devotee of Sai Baba to accept the above facts just like that. As a matter of fact many will come up with a good reason why "He is an avatar anyway. His ways are not to be scrutinised, who am I to understand."

Been there.

Nothing new.

But the facts, the truth, that for which we all travelled to India is now calling for us. The truth is crying for help.

With the other crushing and devastating findings (paedophilia etc) in this report from other unassuming devotees, I believe one owes it to ones own spirit, to accept and grow and be ready to support all those people that we considered brothers and sisters, because many of them, and especially the older ones, who have been devotees for decades, will need all the support they can get.

Good Luck

Hans de Kraker 

Open letter Conny Larsson

to Sai Baba

 

October 25. 2000

Sathya Sai Baba

In Puttaparthi, India

Dedication:

This open letter is dedicated to all the true seekers in the world, past and present who boldly offer their life for the sake of the truth.

To those who did not hide behind denials to protect their integrity.

To those who risked isolation, jobs, friends, reputation by coming out in the open with their experiences for the sake of protection of the innocent seekers that is in danger by affiliation with the Sathya Sai Organisation or Sai Baba in person.

To Sai Baba

This is Conny, the Swedish man (boy) that came to you in Puttaparthi 15 of March 1978 who is writing. I am writing to you directly since I know that I can not get through by using your own organisation since they are all living in total denial of the facts that the whole world now is waking up to.

If you by any chance have forgotten me you might remember me as the "Crutch boy", or even as Sathya, you baptised me to that name once in an open interview not knowing what deep meaning it would have for the future to come. That name (sathya) has always stayed in my mind and kept me holding off to the truth even when temptation was there to gain quick benefits.

When I came to you in 1978 I was in despair due to the fact thatI had left my Master Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in 1976, mostly due to organisational reasons. During my time with him I became his personal secretary and loved the duty to serve a holy man with the best of intentions. Under his supervision I educated myself in Rishikesh 1969 to become a teacher of meditation in the age old Shankaracharya-tradition. His own guru was the Shankaracharya of JyotirMath.

In the year 76 -78 I immigrated to Sri Lanka due to the beauty and to the impact that the Buddhist teaching had made on me.

1 changed my occupation and became a constructor of beach bungalows that were sold to prominent buyers from all over the world. It all ended up in the necessity of bribing all ministers for getting permissions and contracts signed. When my conscience told me that this was absolutely wrong 1 could not continue and therefore 1 withdrew more and more from the company. Still trying to uphold my spiritual path I happened to come across the name and picture of you in a little hut on the beach in Beruwala and was advised to go to India.

1 did so after having talked with different persons about you. My expectations were high. The people I talked to were praising your glory and told me that you were able to manifest things from thin air by your own hand and also that you were an AVATAR. Some people said you were an incarnation of the known Shirdi Sai. Also that you were God in human form.

When I finally arrived in Puttaparthi March 1978 I was absolutely exhausted after 2 days of travel and it was 42 degrees Celsius in the shadow. Not many people were there maybe 1500 altogether and you approached me directly during your Darshan (meeting people outside in the Mandir compound) and said to me" Oh! You have come now! "Where do you come from?" you asked. I answered. "Sweden Sir!" You said: "No, no! You come from Sri Lanka". You smiled and walked away leaving me absolutely flabbergasted. 1 was impressed by the appearance and the extraordinary person I was told you was. After this I were left to my own fantasies.

During my four days of stay I wandered in the Ashram, read books, listened to praise and stories that set you off as the "Divine Himself". The propaganda was massive and done in a very smooth and pleasant way. In between outdoor meetings we were served the very best vegetarian food, still in wonder after your manifestations of the "holy ash-vibuthi" which you did several times.

It all looked so simple for you and you always had a smile for me and I, as everyone else, felt in line to love you as presented namely "the Divine in Human Form".

Blessed by this 1 returned to Sri Lanka thinking that this was my new way. Now I had no more interest in continuing the construction work in Sri Lanka. I was offered 22 million $US for my company by a Swiss-company that wanted to take over.

1 had now been to you several times during 1978 and wanted to settle down in Puttaparthi for good near you. 1 wanted to sail the company in benefit for the construction of a new hospital for the poor and visitors in need. 1 was prepared to donate everything to the organisation if you had wished so. My only interest was to stay close to you.

You soon started to call me in for several private interviews and I become a noticed person in the ashram. But the other devotees did not know what was going on between you and me in the inner interview room. I did not know myself, 1 just believed you when you said that you were God and were helping me with my problems by taking care of my Kundalini-process. This was odd I think, since you did this by physically approaching my genitals, sometimes by smearing oil, later by masturbating me and asking for the same done to you. You also did oral sex on me several times; you always seemed to enjoy it immensely. When you asked me to do oral sex on you I backed up, due to my background as a molested child.

My alcoholic father's friend did the molesting during Friday evenings, when I was between four and eight years old. You were kind enough not to push me further. Instead you continued with oral sex on me until 1983. I had now become 34 years old and fallen out of your sexual interest zone. When I was a child and was abused I always reacted by doing as I was told in order to save my life. So when you first approached me even if it was in a gentle way of a touch, by your hand at my genitals, I somehow reacted instinctively and closed my door to my inner consience. I stopped to listen to my inner voice since I did not want to loose the divine image of you.

All the people you had engaged were putting their efforts in building the image of you as God - living and moving upon earth for humanity to benefit, you were supposed to be pure love and have no personal desire or lust other than giving joy to mankind. Of course I believed the whole concept, innocent as I was. 

Now, I have some questions for you!

Were you aware of the fear that you activated in me when sexually harassing me? If you are the person you want us to believe, did it not occur to you that instead of giving me joy and love you only invoked fear in its deepest level. Are you aware of the fact that I stopped to listen to my inner voice from that moment and became your prisoner for 20 years?

From that day I was totally in your hands and you and your organisation kept me there by using the words of love and wisdom. Instead of reacting as a normal being I started to praise you all my wake hours. Were you aware of that you spiritually and physicially raped and molested me through all these years?

It went so far that I even became the Spiritual Co-ordinator in your organisation. I went on conferences, spoke on radio, wrote a book, brought thousands of people to the feet of you. I lectured all over the world and told the beautiflil story about my relation with you and your mission. Everywhere people came and listened in hundreds, yes sometimes in thousands.

I kept onl thinking this was my duty, as you always told me. This special relation with you was my deepest secret and 1 believed you when you said that I was the only one worthy of this special work.

I was so puffed up by the attention from you that I totally lost track of reality. During the time 1 was imprisoned by you I gave away my company in Sri Lanka. I returned ruined to Sweden on your request in 1980 and started the home for drug addicts and criminals that I am stili running now as a very well known institute.

During the years that past by after 1983 when your physical involvement with me stopped I just served and served as a "duty officer" in your organisation even though the "bells of warning" clanged of and on.

So many times I saw you cheat with the manifestations, so many times I saw you do acts of misconduct with other boys, I always thought you where testing me as a devotee! 1 never let the thought in that this was wrong. For me it was all a blessing, divine touch or "Leelas" (games).

It was first in the end of 1986 when I met with several boys that had similar experiences that I started to ask myself if this was wrong. At one time you asked me to participate in an interview, in the inner room, with one of my patients from the institute. I thought you wanted me to translate but you wanted me to participate when you sexually harassed the boy whom at that time were 23 years old, blond and handsome. Somehow you had understood that my childhood experiences had disturbed my identity and made me bisexual. And now you wanted me to partake in your play with the boy. Before I reacted the boy himself pushed you away and went out of the room leaving you and me there. You just raised your shoulders and said: "Pity! He does not understand Sparshan". (Meaning Gods physical way with him.) Do I need to tell you that the boy went home and never wanted to hear about you again, nor did he want to go back even when I offered him to pay his expenses. Do I need to tell you that the boy felt deeper and deeper into an incurable depression related mainly to this traumatic experience and finally committed suicide? StilI my inner voice did not wake up and I kept on hiding my own childhood trauma from my awareness.

Could you not have made me aware of my subconciousness in a different way? Did you have to use my patients in your sexual activities and thereby using me as a pimp for you? Could it not have been done in a more spiritual way if that was your intention?

Do you remember in Puttaparthi 1980 when I had broken my knee and I came with crutches to you on Darshan meeting on the 25th of December? When you called me on to the compound and asked me to let go of my crutches and walk, which I did in front of everyone. Do you remember how you called me in for an interview after the enormous response you got from the people that thought they had seen a miracle. Do you remember how you asked me not to talk to anyone about it, giving them the opportunity to create their own story which they did. From then on you called me the "Crutch boy" and called for me as soon as you wanted to impress on a Doctor or a Minister etc. Again you used me to make people to believe that you were divine.

Do you remember when I came to you in Puttaparthi after a few years absence and brought my fiancé? We came for you to bless our marriage. During the interview you asked me if I knew what happens to butter in a fire. I answered you that it would melt. You looked deeply into my eyes and said. "Do you want to melt?" You were referring to my girlfriend as the fire. Innocently I said: "No I don't want to melt". Then you said: "Do not get married you belong to me, you are married to me." You turned to my fiancé and told her to leave me alone. Of course she obeyed as everyone else, she stayed in India and became the mistress to your own translator Anil Kumar. For years you kept her in India indicating to her that Kumar were going to divorce his wife and marry her. She wrote you letters daily, that you received during the Darshan where she raised the question about this man again and again. You always say that you read all letters yourself. Why did you not answer her that she would never be married to this man? She was used all these years, as all of us, for your own benefit. She became a tale in India and you participated in bringing the woman I were meant to marry down to the level of satisfying your own translator and his sexual desires. When I heard about this after a couple of years I intervened and she finally ended the relationship with Kumar. Afterwards she was threatened to her life and chopped to keep silent. She is still living in Puttaparthi in total denial of what has happened to her.

Was it really worth it? Destroying the love between to young people, separate them from each other and give one of them away as a mistress to an old man who already had a wife and two kids. For what purpose did you do this Baba? What did you in the end get out of it? We who were devoted to you really believed in the Five Human Values-program that was structured by Dr. Gokak and incorporated in your teaching. We started schools all over the world to educate children for the coming of a new world order were you were and would be our guiding light through this cruel world. We all came to you with open hearts and offered our services to what we thought were the purity himself, selflessness incarnated and God on earth. We all were absolutely convinced.

As the years passed by rumours about you cheating with your manifestations started and also that you were increasing your sexual activities with younger and younger boys. Your own students both in Brindavan and in Puttaparthi started to confront us westerners with this unpleasant news about our God-you Sai Baba.

I slowly started to grasp the idea of being swindled by an organisation I always felt very unpleasant to be in and from here on I kept my ears and eyes open when I visited India and especially Puttaparthi.

Whenever I was in India and Puttaparthi I tried to contact boys I saw being called in for interviews.

During the years there was especially one German boy that always was called in.

I made friends with him and slowly the whole story uncovered. He had got at least 100 interviews during the last 5 years and when I asked him if Sai Baba ever told him any spiritual teachings during the private interviews he answered no. As we learned to know each other more and more 1 realised that you only performed sexual activities with the boy on different levels during the interviews. You apparently explained it for the poor boy as something he needed in order to raise the Kundalini. 1 know you also told the boy not to talk to anyone else, to stay in his room while being in Puttaparthi and only come to Darshans. The poor boy obeyed you except when he came to talk with me. The boy had noticed that you often stopped and talked with me during Darshans, this was the reason why he slowly became confident in me and started to talk to me without fearing for your punishment.

I told him my whole story and did not hide anything for him and he had the same experience of being chosen by God for a certain purpose that he was being prepared for by your sexual activities you were inflicting on him. At this time I were fully convinced that something was really wrong, but I did not know how to get out of the trap.

When I came to India in January 1999 I found a young Swedish man trapped in the absolutely same pattern as the German boy. I then decided to do everything that I could to find a valuable condusion that could hold me through the inner storm that was slowly but steadily approaching me.

The boy you had chosen as a toy for the time being were called the "Golden Boy" due to all the so called manifestations that you had given him during his eight interviews. He approached me for help to understand what was happening to him, since Dr. Jargon Moolgard from Sweden and also National Co-ordinator for the Sai Organisation in Sweden did not listen to the boys problems with you Baba. He did not help the poor boy, so the boy turned to me. I had just arrived to India with my littie group and we found a big Swedish group believing and thinking that the boy was very special and chosen by God especially. The truth was that he as all of us only was used for your sexual purposes and satisfaction. We spent night after night in comparing our experiences and came to the conclusion that these actions we had been subjected to were only of sexual nature. There was never any spirituality in our relation to you. We were both just used.

In the meantime you "manifested" 1000 dollars for him so he could pay for a ticket and visit you in Kodaai Canal in June 1999. You told him to bring his mother this time. The boy went home in absolute confusion and so did I. Anyhow I decided that if he was going back again I would follow since he had turned to me for help, as a well known person within the Sai organisation. Frankly I decided to protect him from getting more molested by you. We returned in June 1999. His mother were going as well but would arrive later. We arrived in Puttaparthi with our eyes wide open eagerly to find out what was true and not. It did not take long before you called us in because of the "Golden Boy". You jumped on him right away, so openly flirting that other people started to realise what was going on and after your second and last interview with the boy it was so obvious that other people started to react and questioned what was going on. We were now out of doubt but for the sake of our own security we decided to keep quiet about it until we left India, this time for good since our relation to you had finally been cleared. There was no longer any doubt about your intentions with us.

We were all used and it seemed like all the leaders knew about It, but kept quiet for the sake of being in the limelight or whatever.

When we came home the "Golden Boy" approached all the leaders in the Swedish Sathya Sai Organisation to put a meeting together where this could be ventilated and cleared out. I was invited together with other victims to come and share their stories. The meeting shocked the Swedish Sai Family and most people left the organisation and you, Sai Baba, directly. Some people fell into denial and stayed and became the new leaders of the organisation.

Since then the word is spreading all over the world and victims from all over the world are coming out from the shadows telling mostly the same sad story about you. All over the world your name and your organisation is put on the list of scum. There is no return and your name and reputation will always be: "The man that called himself the Avatar of Avatars but showed up to be just a simple man with sexual desires for young boys. The man that cheated a whole world using the name of God and love as his tools. The man that used other peoples knowledge and wisdom as his own and pretended to be a guiding light for humanity. Finally exposed by the innocent people that he molested."

When you baptised me as Sathya (the truth) you did not seem to know whom you were dealing with. I was betrayed in my childhood by adults, I lost my voice and ability to speak, but I could pray to God for help. It took years, different ways were tried, even yours but finally truth succeeded and I was brought back to my own inner voice again and thereby my own relation to God-within. I now will settle this as, a testimony for all the people on the globe, especial young boys and their parents. To not ever let their children go to Puttaparthi or to any place were you Sai Baba resides, since they all would risk being at your altar of sex uphold Baba.

You might say this is a common culture in India. Sorry we will answer you, even you have to follow the laws of your country, as you yourself told us we had to. Culture or not we in the west are happy to announce to you that we will uphold the Sanatana Dharma (eternal righteousness) even if your people does not care we will protect the Heritage of Bharat (India). This letter to you is written direct from my hands and could be used as an affidavit if necessary, to any court in the world that will bring the issue up for a trial. I also gladly tell you Baba that I will participate as a firsthand witness whenever I am called to do so. I will not stand behind the "Curtain of shame" any longer and so will not hundreds of other boys all over the world.

We ask of you Baba to withdraw from the self proclaimed God head and confess to everyone that you cheated them all the time, that you are only a simple human being with desires that wants to be fullfilled as everyone of us have.

That you try to hide your homosexuality only shows you as weak and not up to date with what is going on in the world. Today we have United Nations humanitarian rights to protect the homosexual community that is common knowledge. You do not have to hide behind a mask of God to be able to satisfiy your desires. You have so much charisma and charm that you could get in contact with partners without having to swindle young boys and a whole world.

Be brave Baba as we finally became, leave your fear behind, and love is there even for people like you.

The world is eagerly waiting for you stepping down from your God throne down to the floor of really serving mankind as an equal. People that have changed the world like Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King and many others they never needed to be looked upon as being Gods. Being servants satisfied them. Is it not your saying also " Love all Serve all ". Not "Hurt all - Rape all", which is a tendency you and your movement now is trying to uphold by saying openly that your rapes and molestation's are of divine nature. You never cared to ask us what we felt and thought. You told us what we are and expected us to accept your picture. Sorry but we could not, if we are going to survive as spiritual beings.

We now longer say Sai Ram. We say SHIVA RAM! Knowing that truth will conquer.

Yours sincerely in hope of improvement,

CONNY LARSSON

Director of Karnan Institute

Tostebo Gods

61040 Gusum

Sweden

Telephone 00461123 23048, fax 23015, e-mail address: conny@email.com

Anyone that reads this and needs support might contact me and the Lifeline-group that has been created to support everyone that needs help to leave the Sai Baba movement.

This open letter can be forward and used in any official circumstances if the content is intact and presented in its whole.

 

"SEDUCED"

 

DANISH TV CONTROVERSIAL DOCUMENTARY ON SAI BABA

Regardless of the fact that the Sathya Sai Organization did everything in its power,
even through the judiciary, to prevent producer Øjvind Kyrø of  DR (Denmark Radio),
from  broadcasting a critical TV documentary on Sai Baba, it was aired on
Wednesday, January 30, 2002 at 8:05 pm.

English translation of the full spoken text by Robert Priddy, in consultation with Øjvind Kyrø

Parts

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The story of Sam Young in the Danish movie SEDUCED is to be seen on this site, we divided it in three parts.

You may read along all spoken words from Sam and his father if you like.

Note: WMV files don't work with Netscape browser, please use Internet Explorer instead.

Broadband quality:

Sam Young I (10.2 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player) (temporarily not available)

Sam Young II (7.32 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player) (temporarily not available)

Sam Young III (9.40 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player) (temporarily not available)

Modem quality:

Sam Young I (1.86 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player)

Sam Young II (1.85 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player)

Sam Young III (1.85 MB, wmv file for Windows Media Player)

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This is the spoken text of the clips:

                                        ("SAM")  One time he had his robe almost completely off and he tried to have anal sex with me, because he came from behind me and started climbing up on top of me, you know, and being that I’m so much taller than him, in order to keep prevent it from happening, I just stood straight up and didn’t allow him to do anything, you know, and I kind of kept pushing him away and keep him there until ??... I know, I want to talk to you, I want to be with you and I love you. He said, "You don’t love me? You don’t love me?" And I would say, "No, I love you, but I just don’t want to have sexual relations with you."

214   00:29:32:00    00:29:36:07    The boy and his family were showered with jewels and watches.  

215   00:29:36:10    00:29:41:05     The family wishes to remain anonymous because they fear the reactions of Sai Baba`s followers.     

216   00:29:41:08    00:29:46:21     Today they live in the US Midwest. The father was one of the leaders in the American Sai movement -       

217   00:29:46:24    00:29:53:22     But he broke with the organisation when he discovered the molesting.  This is the first time they give their accounts on TV.

                           ("SAM"s father)   We were shocked when we heard it and the both of us just embraced our son at that time and we said, "That’s it. It’s over. It’s finished." And the thing that was most impactful there, was that when we said to him, "Why didn’t you tell us?", and he said, "The greatest fear that I had was that my family would choose SB and I would lose my family." And that he had lived with that fear. And he said, "and that I would be responsible for possibly bringing down an organisation as big as this.”

                                      (”SAM”)   The first time I had a personal experience with SB was when I was 16 years old. I went to India alone with some friends in a USA group. I think I was the only person in that group that he gave a personal interview to. I went in there, and he motioned for me to lower my pants. And I did. I was very nervous at the time, yeah. And he waved his hand and turned it over and showed me some oil. And he started to rub it on my testicles and started kissing me. And as he was kissing me, he started kissing me deeply, you know. And I started tensing up and, you know, not understanding what was happening. But it seemed to me as if SB was trying to make my penis erect. He had told me not to tell anybody about what he had done, that people wouldn’t understand it.   

218  00:31:46:24    00:31:49:21      (COMMENTATOR) the molestations went on for several years.

                                       (”SAM”)  The second time that I went to see SB was in 1997. I went with my whole family and a group of people. I believe we had about 10 people in our group. I don’t remember exactly what happened that first day, but I know that there was physical contact in the personal interview room. I ended up getting about 20 to 21 personal interviews within a month and a half. Then he at one time gave me a watch and I wore it for about a week. And after about the first week of wearing it, the gold started to fade off of the inside and around the sides and I felt it to be kind of strange, because I felt it was like a token of love or a spiritual gift or some sort of a … something special, and it was just already … it was really cheap, I could tell. The second hand was sometimes moving in different directions, and the gold left and so I asked him in an interview, you know, why it was changing colours and he almost got upset with me for asking a question like that, you know. And he told me then, “I’m going to give you a solid gold watch.” And so he made another watch for me. It was solid gold. At the time it looked very gold on the front and the back. And about a week later it was all faded off. It didn’t work very well for very long. But every time we would go back into the personal room, his wants got to be very intimate. And he was constantly having me take out my penis and he would hold it, sometimes put it in his mouth and look at me, and then ask me to do the same thing or push my head down and lift his robe up. And I was gagging and almost about to vomit. And, you know, that was probably the most mentally break down type of thing I’ve ever done in my life, because if I didn’t feel like at that time, like my life or my family’s happiness or … was depending on it, I wouldn’t have done it. But my mentality at that time … I felt like it was a life or almost death situation. You know, this was God in human form, but that was my mental program – this is God in human form. How could I deny him what he was trying to make me do? There must be some deeper reason or deeper meaning that what I see.”                                

219   00:34:33:13    00:34:37:18     Sai Baba threatened the boy by saying that his family would not get any more interviews -    

220   00:34:37:21    00:34:41:10     If he revealed anything to his parents.

                                       ("SAM")  But there were several occasions that really made it snap in my mind that it was no longer even possibly a spiritual experience. I was constantly feeling the pressures of the thousands and thousands of people outside the room that all wanted to be in the position that I was in, and who every day almost treated me with anger or resent, you know, because I got so much attention from SB. My feeling, however, was, if you guys only knew what was actually going on back there, you wouldn’t even want to be in my shoes, because it’s not very funny.

                                      (”SAM”)  What really helped me was when I had some conversations with some other people who had had similar experienes. Because I felt, that if they had had experiences as intense, or close to as intense as mine, I could talk to them about it more openly than I could talk to my dad. So we had talked about it, and all the people that I had talked about it were equally confused about it as I was. However, also equally brainwashed and allowing it to continue to take place. So I would say that finally I decided that I was not going to put myself into that position again, because life without SB was going to be a better life.”

227   00:38:26:03    00:38:29:06    When his son at last told him what was going on -   

228   00:38:29:09    00:38:34:18    - the father broke all connection with Sai Baba and resigned as leader of a part of the movement in America.

                       (SAM’S FATHER)  I could see the manipulation that had been done. The threats, the pressure, the intense responsibility to bring this boy along, to keep him around for seven years as Baba’s plaything.   

229   00:38:53:16    00:38:58:13    The father says that he complained to the highest leader in the organisation in the USA.

(SAM’S FATHER)  We told him every single detail. And honestly, I would say  that he was genuinely shaken. He made comments like, "Faith has to be restored. Words will not be enough. I hate to think that 25 years of my life had been for nothing, had been a waste. We MUST talk to Baba about this." And he asked us, "Please, please, do not tell anyone about this until we’ve had a chance to talk to Baba." He said, "I will go, I will be there for his birthday." He was called in and he specifically adressed the situation with our family. Baba was very clear exactly which family it was. He said, "Baba, I need to talk to you about inappropriate action that this family says you’ve had with their son." Baba’s response was: "Swami is pure." The next day Baba gave his big birthday discourse, and in that discourse he praised this individual, that man who is the head of the organisation, more than he had ever praised anyone else before, saying what an incredible devotee he was, and all that he had done. And a friend of mine who had videotaped it and had it, was approached afterwards by this man. He said, "Oh, did you get that on tape?" He said, "It was the peak of my life." So when he returned and he called me, he said, "I’ve done what I said I would do. I’ve kept my word. I spoke to Baba. Baba’s response is: 'Swami is pure,' and he said that you would return." And he said, "My heart and my mind are on Swami. You have to do whatever you have to do." And I just ... I felt that he just couldn’t face it.

Sai Baba Molested me #1

 

From: http://www. network54. com/Hide/Forum/106920

Date: November 13,   2001 at 7:49 AM

By: John Bright

For me personally the Sai Baba debate is over. The bottom line is this: I am an American. I lived continuously in Sai Baba's ashrams from 1994-1996. Like most devotees staying at his ashrams, I followed him wherever he traveled. (his ashram at Puttaparthi, Brindavan, and Kodaicanal etc. )
I was completely ignored by Baba for most of the two years until 1996 when I was called for an interview with a group of fellow American devotees. During the main interview he granted me a private interview. During this private interview he sexually molested me. There was no room for misinterpretation on my part and Sai Baba wasn't trying to activate my kundalini or any of the hundreds of other rationalizations and denials that devotees and believers in Sai Baba come up with. Also, this wasn't a matter of an impure, egoistic, finite mind of a mere mortal misinterpreting a pure god-man whose actions are born of of an infinite mind so vast and complex that it is beyond the capability of the limited finite human mind to accurately judge or understand. His actions were for his own sexual gratification. (If he is activating my kundalini why would he try to get me to put his erect penis in my mouth) Another point here:If not a blade of grass moves without his will why couldn't he simply activate the kundalini of us young men (and in some cases boys) by his mere sankalpa or will or thought-power. And as for the argument that he does it to give the devotees the pleasure of human interaction with the divine, this simply doesn't hold water. Anybody who has had this happen is usually severely traumatized and leaves Sai Baba forever.

I admit that it is hard to believe these stories of sexual molestation when you read what Sai baba teaches (universal love, harmlessness, feed the poor, help ever hurt never). In fact if I hadn't had my experience I probably wouldn't believe them.
When I returned to America in 1996 after my traumatic episode with Sai Baba I spent at least two years trying to heal and to hold on to some form of sanity. I didn't try to tell any devotees of Sai Baba what had happened to me because I knew that to do so would be futile. A devotee is told to not harbor negative thoughts and to snuff them out immediately and any thought contrary to the thought that "Sai Baba is God" definitely qualifies as a negative thought in an ardent devotees mind. It wasn't until I saw the September-October 2000 issue of Nexus magazine that I truly entertained the possibility of reaching devotees and convincing them of the truth of what I had experienced. In that issue was an article titled: Sai Baba: Guru Gone Wrong? For the first time I read the Findings report by Faye and David Bailey;in it were similar experiences to my own. I knew for the first time I had credible evidence to back up my story. I knew that there would be a chance after all of convincing devotees of what happened to me should I choose to try.

The first and only attempt to date came when I went to see an old Sai friend. I asked him if he had heard the stories in nexus magazine and he said he had. To my surprise he didn't seem phased by it or even disturbed. He also acknowledged that he was aware of the critical stories of Sai Baba on the web. He said that he saw a lot of anger in them. I then , without going into detail,  let him know that I had similar experiences. He said that he viewed Sai Baba a little differently than most people; that to him Sai Baba was not God but an advahut (a highly advanced spiritual being who is still nonetheless climbing the spiritual ladder to perfection) the gist of what my friend continued to say was that we all,  including himself, have sexual appetites and that people have their own sexual preferences. The meeting was cut short because he had an appointment and I left by simply saying that he interpreted these things differently than me. I moved to another city and have not spoken to him since,  though I hope to some day. I left a little bit stunned-where had I gone wrong? As I drove home I thought that my friend may have thought I was attacking the right to choose A homosexual life style. This wasn't the case. I was attacking a man who claims to be God, who claims to be free of all worldly desires but who at the same time regularly molests young men and boys against their will. Even if I accepted the premise that he was an advahut that still didn't excuse Sai Baba's activities. Part and parcel of advancing spiritually (at least in eastern spirituality) is the shedding of bodily appetites and worldly desires. Yet Sai Baba's sexual appetites outweighs the sexual desires of the so-called average man mired in the world of Maya (illusion) or Samsara. If he is an advahut then by definition one would certainly expect him to have gained more self-control over his bodily desires than the average man. So any way you look at it the advahut argument just doesn't fly.

So that ended my first and only attempt (at the time of this writing) to speak to a fellow devotee about my experience. 
I must admit I understand the denial of a devotee or true believer in Sai Baba probably better than anyone. I was the worlds worst when it came to denial until I was sexually molested by Sai Baba. I refused to listen to anything even remotely critical of him. If someone tried I would walk away and if I couldn't I would tune them out to the best of my ability.
If you try to tell an ardent devotee an experience like mine they will either believe that you are a deliberate liar or they will say that your impure mind has projected it impurity on Sai Baba's selflessly pure acts. There is simply no way to win with a true believer (I know I was one).
There are different groups of Sai Baba devotees: the truly ardent (or the true believers) like I mentioned above. They will refuse to listen to anything negative about Sai Baba and if they must listen they will tune out all that you say. (I fell into this group)
The next group will listen to negative statements about Sai Baba and they will make a pretense of objectivity,  but they still operate on the premise that:"Sai Baba just has to be God"; that, right there,  is the death-nell of any true openness or objectivity. Like a computer running on a certain program they will throw out any thing contrary to their programming-in this case the programming is that"Sai Baba is God"and anything indicating otherwise is thrown out. 

Then there is a third, more rare group,  they are truly objective and will genuinely listen to, and consider, new evidence even if it makes them uncomfortable.
For those of you out there who believe in these stories of sexual molestation about Sai Baba and who want to get the word out I believe it is important to understand this denial mechanism present in the minds of those who resist accepting the evidence. By understanding it, it may just help you reach them. Some times even this understanding isn't enough in such cases all we can do is practice the age-old spiritual virtue of patience. Each of these individual horror stories of sexual molestation is like a brick; one, two or three bricks alone,  may hardly be noticeable, but as the stories continue to come in and as the bricks continue to pile up, a wall is being built,   and a wall cannot be ignored. My story is one of those bricks. Alone these stories are weak but together they are strong. 

This is my first time to share my story in any kind of public forum. In a way I am kind of testing the waters with this posting. I am still a little uncomfortable sharing my story and up to now I have been very careful and selective about when and with whom I share it. I didn't really go into any great detail about what happened in the private interview room with Sai Baba in this posting but I may in the future in another posting. I'm not sure yet,  but one day I may try to write a polished,  complete version of my story. There is more to tell and more details to fill in.

In case this has been forwarded elsewhere I want to say that this is originally appearing as a posting on Craig Hamilton Parker's website on his Sai Baba debate posting board. Though, Craig believes that Sai Baba is who he says he is,  he encourages open debate about Sai Baba on the message board and records responses made to each posting. If you are interested his web address is: www.psychics.co.uk
To get to the message board scroll down the home page until you see Sai Baba listed on the menu. Click on the words Sai Baba. This will take you to another page. Click on the Sai Baba message board heading on this page and it will take you to the Sai Baba debate posting board.
When you get there look for the posting that asks the question "is Sai Baba good or evil" and you can read more of my reasons for why he is evil. Also scroll down the posting board and click on the posting:" Sai Baba is a fraud"the posting gives several good links that you can click on that will take you to sites that give damning evidence against Sai Baba.

I encourage you to forward this posting to anyone that might have an interest or to anyone that it might help;I intend to do the same.
Since a significant percentage of devotees of Sai Baba will avoid the completely negative websites like the plague, Craig's site may be just the place to reach those people that need to be reached by those of us who know the truth about Sai Baba.
Before I go I want to thank you Craig for being open enough to allow this open debate despite your beliefs in Sai Baba's authenticity.

However, there are two things that you mentioned that I want to address.
You said that if a person sees Sai Baba as a molester then Sai Baba will become a molester and if we see him as God he will become God. I think I see where you are going with that. There is a philosophy that mind is the builder and that perception and belief create reality;while I believe there is truth in this I also believe that it gets twisted. For example:I may choose not to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow and this belief may prevent me from accepting that the sun will rise tomorrow but my belief will not prevent the objective fact that the sun will rise tomorrow.  In a similar way my personal belief that Sai Baba is or is not a molester will in no way change the objective reality. Sai Baba either is or is not a child molester;my personal beliefs doesn't change the objective truth about Sai Baba only my acceptance or rejection of it. 

Finally, you mentioned that Sai Baba told a woman in an interview that she would be able to get an interview whenever she wanted in the future because devotees would be leaving him in droves. (When I was in India I heard something along similar lines)You seem to use this as evidence of Sai Baba's omniscience as well as a way to discredit these stories of sexual molestation. I will simply say this; if you were a molester in Sai Baba's position and you knew that the word was getting out or was likely to get out and that people were talking, what better way to cover your tracks and conduct damage control than to say such things. He is killing two birds with one stone-he creates the illusion that his knowledge is born of omniscience when it comes to pass and at the same time he discredits these stories of sexual molestation. His prediction comes not from omniscience but from the knowledge of what he is doing to young men in his private interview room and the knowledge that it is leaking out.

I want to thank you again,  Craig for this forum and I wish you and all who read this the best.

I pray that we all will find the Light, Love and Truth that we seek.

to get all of the information in one page you can go to www.exbaba.com

thanks.

nas shouldnt be banned nas keep up the good work
one request to binod pls dont paste all thise very long articles

ya Binod pls dont paste all this long articles. next time just post the website link . thanks