However one defines an authoritarian regime, one of its hallmarks is a lack of press freedom.

Indeed, only about three weeks ago or so, an organisation called Reporters Without Borders published a report, which stated that Nepal's rank in the world, in terms of
press freedom, was 160 out of 167. Nepal did better than CERTIFIABLY authoritarian regimes such as Burma, Cuba and North Korea. Indeed, going by this report, it left
no doubt in anyone' mind that Nepal was/is indeed an authoritarian regime.

Surprisingly, at the time, everyone in Nepal seemed to accept this verdict WITHOUT challenging or questioning or even welcoming it. It became news and sort of died out after that.

[My uncharitable explanation for that silence is: Journalists did not want challenge it because (a) they don't have the basic background in stat to challenge the RWB's methodology, and (b) it's in their financial interest (i.e. to continue to have an easy access to donor funds for governance work to conflict-mitigation work to
whatever else that our 'conflict-jounalism industrial complex' has spawned in recent years!!) to continue have the rest of the world paint their situation as hopelessly khattam in Nepal.

They did not want to welcome it either, for they know that though situation is not
that encouraging in Nepal (especially for rural journalists), it's not horribly bad either, especially for most urban media elite (presumably the ones who filled out the survey questionnaires) who are basically well-paid NGO-wallahs!).

Besides the journalists had just received millions of rupees from the government, and, understandably they did not want to bite the hand that fed them.]

So that's Part I.

***

Part II is:

But when the old Panchayati hand Mohammed Mohsin dared to say that the country might well head toward being an authoritarian regime, watch how all hell broke loose.

From Khagendra Sangraula to Suman Pradhan, everyone jumped on Mohsin, some even asking for his resignation.

*****

Observations:

When foreigners tell us: "Based on your press freedom index, you ARE an authoritarian regime", Nepali journalists keep quiet -- and, assuming that to be true, do NOTHING to expand the degrees of freedom.

But when a Minister suggests that we might be heading toward an authoritarian rule, then everyone shouts at him as if any word against democracy is totally unacceptable.

********

Question:

Could it be that for most people in Nepal shouting at the Minister is a lot easier in terms of generating heat than challenging RWB's index?

After all, let's face it, an authoritarian regime does NOT exactly announce to all that it
is GOING to be an authoritarian one.

It just is.

oohi
ashu

Hey guys!!!! Lets see....how do they(Nepe jee and Ashu jee) fight each other.....
It's interesting ...!!! 'coz the fight is being held on sajha ground between an ex-harvard student and a PHD holder.

Peace!!!!...................out!!!!!

Whyhappy,

Let's struggle to keep Sajha a some sort of a meritocracy, if you will -- a place where people judge us on the basis of how valid and reasonable and logically consistent our ideas and arguments are, and NOT on the basis of where we've been, where we are from or who our family is.

Heated discusions need not be "fights" that require "peace outs". If anything, such discussions help one clarify issues, if not to the public, then certainly to one's own
mind.

oohi
ashu

Czar, actually, its me who missed your point. You are right: Being exposed to different ideas through internet or other sources, does not create a tolerant community. For example, just look at some of the messages in this thread. This thread has proven your point. Please disregard my previous answer to you.

Ashu wrote on Nepe:
"With Nepe, there is never a room for doubt, never a room for grey areas or for ambiguities or even for ambivalence. He's certain about what he knows, and he wants
to stop at HIS certainty . . .contradictory evidence be damned, and he waves what he knows as the truth, even if that meant painting others in a bad, caricatured light.

When he can't get his deas across, especially to people who may not share his politics, he then tries to go for the laughs, attacking them personally.

One example: Nepe's palpable anger about the fact that I -- unlike some his Sajha heroes of the past, whose errors he easily forgave because they happened to
have sided with his ideology-- refuse to be a poster-boy for his brand of
republicanism and prefer to weigh in with my own judgment is interesting.
"

I agree with Ashu's observation on Nepe. Nepe ji is a man who will excuse
anyone for any mistake s/he makes if s/he agree with Nepe ji's political
belief. It can be seen in this thread or others. For others, Nepe ji just
jumps to characterize them, because he said he was a Maoist, and that is
verbal tricks of hardcore communist revolutinaries.

IF ji will be given new names by Nepe for his reappearance in this forum.
No one should be surprised with the new names or adjectives tagged on
you if are going to disagree with Nepe ji. Its his style of getting cheers
from his hard core supporters.

GP

Nepe wrote: "Good luck to you Royalists." ** I don't know who he meant by that characterisation,

I wouldn't call you a Royalist, Ashu. At least not a pure Royalist. In my second posting above, it must be pretty clear, I was addressing to self-declared and known royalists- Isolated Freak and Mohsin and all those who are looking forward to welcoming oncoming Ramrajya of Gyanendra Maharaj.

We have been discussing about your political position on Monarchy for three years now and I thought you should know that I would not call you a Royalist. Haven't I made clear that, based on your opposition to republicanism and your protectionism to the monarchy, I view you as an ALMOST ROYALIST, instead of a pure royalist ? If you insist that I should give more emphasis on your ambiguiosly claimed 'ambiguities, ambivalence and grey area', then I will call you this- 'Mysterious' !

but one has come to accept that hurling adjectives and colorful names at those who dare question/challenge or even disagree with his ideas is one of Nepe's predictable debating tactics.

Damn, I'm caught ! And that too just when I hurled a brand new colorful name !

Yes, I admit that, that has been my way of debating. But I have always, without exception, carefully chosen 'adjectives and colorful names' to keep the focus on the subject of the discussion.

Can you show a single example where I have 'hurled' adjectives and colorful names to divert the attention from the subject of the discussion to totally different thing ?

This is my challange to you and all who are unhappy with my choice of adjectives and colorful names.
(Yaar, mero beijati nagram na. I am a good poet (GP 2004) precisely because I have managed to choose right adjectives and meaningful symbols. Ki haina ?)

Now, in your court, Ashu, it has been your tacticts actually to attack the person in order to skip the debate when you find yourself in a difficult position. Examples can be drawn from your debates with 'Sajha heroes of the past' too, but I don't want to go there. Because there are plenty examples from your debate with myself.

Since the moment I revealed my identity, this has been your standard tactical reply to my question regarding your position on the Monarchy- 'Nepe is a khattam scientist'. Then you would throw a few GENERIC remarks about grey area. Generic remarks are fine in themselves. But you are using them to avoid the debate altogether, to remain shrouded in mystery and be undebatable. Yesto tyaktis po tyaktis, ma naathey ko debate forwarding tyaktis ke tyaktis ?

With Nepe, there is never a room for doubt, never a room for grey areas or for ambiguities or even for ambivalence.

God ! No, I was not praying. Because I really and severely DOUBT the existence of God. But I understand the value of the solace and the power the faithfuls get from their faith in Him. Yet, I would draw a line between the state and the religion. Still I have absolutely no problem to share the joy of a bhajan-kirtan my parents will organize. Yet I would not think twice to say that Saibaba's magics are fraud. What does that make me ?

Now, Ashu, if you would like me to play a game of analogy with Gyanendra Maharaj, I am ready for it. Let's sit together. Shall we ?

Now, you might be feeling that I am LURING you into a game you have resisted to play so long. Yes, you are right. Your unexplained ambivalence does not do for me. If you just have not wanted to explain that (using it as a DHAAL), fine would be it. But you have used it as a TARWAR too, to attack unambigous republicans. Marda hau bhane dekhaau tarbaar ko dhaar. Show how you arrived at that ambiguity and tell me, an unambiguius republican, why I should too. It's my old Lalkaar ho. Renew gareko maattai.

He's certain about what he knows, and he wants to stop at HIS certainty

Had I stopped at MY certainty at one point of my life, 'Prachanda' could have been my name, not Pushpa Kamal Dahal's. Just talking about a dark possibility. May be not 'Prachanda', but I did have an alias which I do not remember now when I was recruited to ANYO, then underground youth wing of ANNFSU- 2039 saal tira ko kura ho yo.

contradictory evidence be damned

It's a pretty cheap aarop, sir. EVIDENCE is a supreme and absolute ruler to me. Yes, yes, I am that. Now, would you care to give a single example where I damned an EVIDENCE ?

And would you allow me to give reference to how you have denied and failed to admit to an evidence contradictory to your assertions ? Does my colorful phrase 'There is no American Infidels in Bagdad' ring a bell ?

Faced with my 'obstinacy', what does Nepe do? After giving me an obligatory "gaali", he starts PREDICTING and FORECASTING -- as though he were some wise sage with a fool-proof crysytal-ball -- that I would turn into a hard-core republican someday.

Aha, so that was 'obstinacy'. I thought you run away to a safe place (Sajha Guild) to hurl fataahaa aarop to me. I had prepared two colorful adjectives for that obstinacy and shooting from the Guild. 'Bhaguwaa' and 'Fataahaa'. Bhaguwaa for bhaaging to the Guild tor say that particular remark, and Fataahaa for plain lying. Let me cite you,

In November 2004, the author was taken aback to learn from a politically astute Sajha reader -- in all seriousness --that this alleged humor piece is -- oh my God! --ominiously political in terms of what it says and does not says about the Royal Palace. Consider yourself appropriately warned, and don't even dare chuckle without looking around first! You never know what goes on in other people's head)

Sir, It was not November 2004, but December 2001, we had a nice chat over that. In November 2004, I was just reminding you of that. You would first deny and then would recall after I pasted the link on the thread 'Press Release of CPN'. Now in the Guild, you again chose to forget our heated argument of December 2001. Please do not fake that surprise. And back to our conversation in December 2001, don't you think I had then suggested a brilliant show (Behind The Iron Curtain..) regarding the palace to add in your list ?

he appears to have done NOTHING, NOTHING at all in the past few years -- except for waving some placards in a park in DC -- to put himserlf in harm's way.

This one I agree.

On Paradox.

The point is that our discussions about democracy has become so muddled, so narrow, so self-serving and so alarmingly fundamentalist in Nepal

I don't know what kind of Vidya you have padheko about democracy. But I don't think democracy is like one of several political religions to be ALARMINGLY FUNDAMENTALIST.

Democracy is fundamental thing. So the discussion about it got to be fundamentalist. It's got to be self-serving. Gyanendracracy is no alternative to it.

However, I agree with you that the discussion is largely muddled. But this is precisely because we have mixed up it with the monarchy right from it's birth in 2047, well then for a well-intentioned reason.

However muddled it has remained in the past, I think now it getting more and more clearled up on a daily basis if not hourly.

we don't demand that Mohsin explain why Nepal ranks just above North Korea and Korea in terms press freedom (despite all his propaganda), while we pounce on him for saying that Nepal might be heading towards an authoritarian rule. That's the paradox I find hard to reconcile with what I know about democracy.

Forgive me I still don't see any paradox. Obviously I don't know what you know about democracy.

Let's put this paradox aside. You have thrown another interesting paradox.

Finally, some of Nepal's "finest" intellectuals -- many of whom fought for democracy and what not -- are now begging the King to come and save the Royal Nepal Academy. Now, that's another paradox I find hard to understand.

It's indeed an unfortunate deed. However, neither it is a paradox to me nor do I think the overall force of pro-democracy flow of Nepali history is too weak at this point to wash away this as a minor story.

Some of our PRADAs were not wise, but they are not foolish either. Begging the king to come and save the Royal Nepal Academy does not contradict with the pro-democracy agenda- in terms of limiting the King to a cultural role. I don't think this begging was meant to give greater POLITICAL role/power to the King.

Whether it was the best option is debatable, but the intention of these finest intellectual was to depoliticize the Academy. So I do not see that much of a paradox here. It was an unwise thing done with a good intention. If that's paradox, okay paradox. But I don't think this group of our 'finest' intellectuals have given TILANJALI to democracy.

Let's not forget, when the jana-aandolan took a distinct republican flavour overriding Girija-MKN's constititional monarchical lagaam, our Pradhyapak-chikitsak-kanoonkarmi-karmachari came to the street. They are there waiting for a right moment, waiting for ongoing royal chatak to collapse.

If I have to say something about Ro. Nepal Academy I will just say they r bunch of so called inetllectuals who r getting old n have nothing else to do than obtain position n money from the government, n if they r in financial problem they call king ,if not they do nothing over there..believe me THEY DO NOTHING...

Royal Nepal Academy was not formed for 'SAHITYAKAR'only who would like to call themselves intellectuals but also forARTISTS, they could never voice anything when musicians n artists who served there for even 12 years were kicked out bcoz of financial reason..what a funny thing to imagine ,our country cant finance her cultural ambassadors, n the funniest part was all our intellectuals were silent about this may be coz they werent touched ..not their department anyway. The truth is, a great musician like Ambar Gurung was also kicked out becoz of the arrogance of these bunch of 'intellectual fools'.

N now they r crying coz Royal Nepal Academy has some serious problems, that is their daily bread is getting away.
I wont be ashamed if I support our damn corrupted Girija for his anti regression movement...atleast he has the guts to say that 'wrong is always wrong' which even few people in Sajha dare to do aswell. Why r people so dumb , why dont they think practically, its a clear cut picture, Deuba was sacked when he was leading a democratic govt. calling him as 'Asacham' n now the same Deuba reinstated with his own party memebers n 'dahi Chyure' UML with Mohsin as a king's representative as being 'Sacham'
.As if 'Sacham 'n 'Asacham' both have similiar meaning, well it can be in our 'Sabadakosh' compiled by our so called Intellectuals of Royal Nepal Academy , the only good thing they did.

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Nepe,

I'll request San to change the date from November 2004 to December 2001.
But I must tell you that my genuine surprise at your finding or not finding rerferences
to the monarchy in that humor piece (see Sajha guild: "I want my NTV") remains unabated.

Other than that, hey, I greatly enjoyed reading your postings above, especially
when obviously we disagree on how to interpret certain events/postings and
news.

Then again, if everyone agreed with me or with you on everything, we'd have a
blandly unchallenging Society for Mutual Admiration (SMA) on Sajha, and though we
had had something like that in the past, we, wiser now, don't want that anymore, do
we?

In addition, I smiled at your particularly this DEFENSE of the Nepali Pragyas.

START QUOTE: Begging the king to come and save the Royal Nepal Academy does not contradict with the pro-democracy agenda- in terms of limiting the King to a cultural role. I don't think this begging was meant to give greater POLITICAL role/power to the King . . .but the intention of these finest intellectual was to depoliticize the Academy. . . .But I don't think this group of our 'finest' intellectuals have given TILANJALI to democracy. END OF QUOTE


When some people (certainly not me!) pretty much say, "Raja Aau, Desh bachau",
that's a vigorous a no-no to you, and you reserve some of your juiciest words to
be hurled at those people, practically reducing them to caricatures.

BUT

When a group of self-styled Nepali intellectuals say "Raja Aau, Pragya Bachau", that's so excusable to you that you are actually able to explain away their action by saying that as long as their intentions are "good", their actions do not matter much.

And was that you used that "Iraqi Minister of Information" metaphor to describe how others change positions?

Life's full of surprises, isn't it?

oohi
"too much work and travel; gone a few days"
ashu

Ashu,

It's a pleasure to know you enjoyed reading me. And thank you for bringing a chance to me to reveal some secrets of my past too (Now GP ji's got one more pramaan to prove that I am his HARDCORE COMMUNIST REVOLUTIONARY !! )

And I appreciate your admittance of the mistake in the Gulid's foreword to 'I Want My NTV'. However, if you are genuinely trying to be fair, then mere miti paribartan is not enough. A serious reader who seriously read your piece, criticized it and suggested where you can do better does not deserve this ridicule from you-

Consider yourself appropriately warned, and don't even dare chuckle without looking around first! You never know what goes on in other people's head

I don't want to prolong the debate on this. However, I'd say this much. I don't know what exactly are you defending with that tone, but you could have simply said that your not including of the palace was an innocent omission. But then you will have to appreciate my suggestion of including the 'Behind the Curtain..' show. Which you are not ready, right ?

Tai tai, yo pani thapi halun- there have been too many INNOCENT OMISSIONS on part of too many of our intellectuals to question the institution of monarchy throughout our history. And there is a reason for this PATTERN. And this is what I was trying to point to by taking on your piece. That's all.

On Academician's plea, you are still refusing to make a distinction between a POLITICAL king and a CULTURAL king.

The plea is not good because it has negative implications. However, the plea itself was not bad.

And one more point we are not talking is that these guys were rightfully pissed off with undue partisan political interference in the institution. I am pissed off too.

However, I would not bring the King to the academy as a remedy. I would do it by resisting the political pressure with pure and therefore superior academic power of the academicians and the rest of the civil society.

A small damage has been done, for sure. But I think this can be and will be repaired. As much as I can see in our media, more sensible intellectuals have criiticized these pleaders. I have yet to read anything in support and I will be totally surprised if any of these 'finest' intellectuals will say that this plea is a part of 'Raja Aau Desh Bachaau' aandolan.

Anybody who goes that way will find out his 'Habigat' in due course of time.

My first thought was, why the hell are they quarelling? What for?

I think one is trying to defend some medieval system where the supreme powers lie in hereditary hands, but in a kind of a roundabout way.

This is the first time I read thread in Sajha from top to bottom; I guess I spend about an hour, but on and off. Yes thread itself supports the Title- A Paradox. Huge contradiction.. What surprise me is - our BUDDHI JIBI CIVILIZED JANATA are nonetheless alike our NETAS -- Seriously I didn't see any difference. Big talk and Big vision and nothing but Thug-of-war. I am not even a graduate yet, but I know where the flaws are, if I look back to system. Not only me even my niche and nephew knows about it. Without any doubt you guys know better than anybody. Lets forget about deeds, issues and reasons - lets put ourselves on the shoes of those BHOKHA-NIMUKHA and lets define Democracy with empty stomach, and naked body -- How it would sound?

Well let me tell -where is flaws -- Because ? of population (JIBI BARGA) fail to represent other 3/4 of population (DARIDRI BARGA) our democracy has been hijacked by extremist, imperialist, fundamentalist, autocrats and to some extend by theocrats - you name it. What can be done when ? of Janta are so split like Ashu ji and Nepe ji who can't even settle for the sake common interest of the county and let our Neta suck our blood. There has always been DWANDA and debate among us - but for what? It is like; they are on a boat, one rowing the paddle opposite of another- but think where it will go? We janta are so divided to let our Netas decide our fate.

Why we are so reluctant over Moushin's comment; why we are so surprised to know our media?s democracy falls among those of N. Korea and Cuba? That doesn't surprise me at all. I am rather surprise of 1/4 BUDDHI JIBI including myself somewhere in the corner of same populace doing nothing rather throwing egocentric ideologies and opinions. That?s what we have been doing for decade, don't we?

Here is small incident -- After so called democracy was imposed to our country I went to my village. It was not like before I used to experience. Neighbors, they didn't talk to each other for the mere reason- one being NC and another UML. The regular morning-tea-talk was thing to be observed; flavored with RAJNITIK. One is cursing another, supporting, opposition, favorism, this that and everything about RAJNITI. Once I asked my KAKA, "Why you don't talk to that gentleman, once suppose to be your intimate Daru Partner". Answer was simple, because he was NC. I asked him, "Who are you then?" He said, "I am UML and I hate person whoever is NC". Then that night another Kaka came from the side by village, fortunately or unfortunately, I don't know, he was RPP. My kakas organized kind of DARU get-together. They discuss over various topics as if they were the one to know inside out of everything. To some extend that interest me as well. I tried to put my points; one of them among us was even sarcastic to me -"Sahar ma basne lai Rajniti thaha chaina." Without any doubt these people were among BUDDHI JIBHI gaule. Within another hour there was huge discussion with an aggression, as if these people were going to decide - "what next about Nepal". To these people Girja, Krishna, Surya were Tri-Dev and others remaining were 33 KOTI DEWATA. I wonder why these people were ready die for these morons, what they possessed to be so talk-about. There were talked about Madan Bhadari?s Bhasan but not so about what he is trying to convey. I didn?t hear anything of common interest. My cousin brother so called intellectual of that GUAN was supporting his father blindly no matter what. Then again I couldn?t differentiate him from others despite of his master degree after I asked him what he was so proud of Multi-Party system and democracy. Answer to me was, ?Baak Swatantrata?. But he couldn?t explain ?Baak Swatantra? for what. To me there was a fiasco of ?Baak Swatantra?, ?JAAD kyayera halla garne.? I couldn?t stand that at all then I went out to isolate myself from the crowd.

By the side of my Kaka?s house there lived a family, very poor family. We called them KHETALA ? couple used to work their ass off at kaka?s field to feed their 4 children. I saw whole family sitting together for dinner. I dare to enter inside their JHUPRO. I ain?t see nothing but little bit of watery DAAL and BHAT in every of those rusted plate. Weather was chilling I saw hardly anything on a small kid body; I didn?t think about adult at least they could endure. I felt like going back to bring my KAKA and had him look at that poor family, who had been well represented by our Netas and their democracy. But what?s the use, my Kaka had witnessed that plight day and night but I guessed he never felt. I asked the man of the house, ?Do you like democracy?. He questioned me what was that and he said, ?MALAI K THAHA, TYO TA HAZUR HARU JUSTO PADE LEKHEKO LAI THAHA HOLA NI? and again he added, ?If it is better than our poverty, I may like it. If it is better than these torn clothes, then I may like it? I went back to join same crowd inside the room without any shame. There was still same aggression, same discussion but that time all of them were under influence. This time it ridiculed me, but what can be done rather then saying sorry to family back in JHUPPRO.

This is what we all are. We belong to same group as that of my Kaka?s. We know Moaist are murderer, we know Netas are pro-indian, we know royals are parasite, then why the heck we are so supportive in the one way or the other. Why we can?t bring ourselves under same umbrella against all flaws?

La Dai haru ho jani najani lekheko hai, Aba Hazur haru justo le nai ho Desh ko bikash garne, Hami haru justo lai motivate garne. Haina ra ?

Correction -- Because ? of population = Because 1/4 of population

Those who think that peoples in this thread are quarrelling, then,
you don't know what a discussion mean. I think Nepe and Ashu
are trying to influence peoples that who can relatively better in
agreeing to disagree. Well, did you ever notice that I had never
characterized Nepe ji (lets say directly), but, Nepe ji tried to down
play with me giving several nicknames like Jaundiced eye, khusket
blah blah..... Did I ever get angry with him? No. By giving new
names Nepe ji claims here that thats his way of debating with
people. I will call him though he look middle aged person, but,
his name calling make him quite young juvenile as he used to
be in his college days around 2039. Oops, Nepe ji, you were
in college exactly the same time as I used to be ..... But, why
are you so hot?

I like Nepe ji, because he spends more time on characterizing
peoples then in debating the contents of someone and he
does not follow the notion of debate: reject ideas, not persons.
This is truly my observations, otherwise he won't have
claimed thats his style "name calling", he tries to demoralize
someone by characterizing peoples with some wonderful
he calls them colorful nicknames.

Anyway, let them resolve and lets see where they stand.

GP

Hey, I don't dislike Nepe ji does not mean, that I am dumb to
understand the meaning of those words. My idea is that let
Nepe ji get excited to find another new "colorful name" and
let peoples find him naked at the end of the day. Peoples will
be scared to challenge Nepe ji, because of his method of debate
by giving "colorful names" to anyone who disagrees with him.

Well, I do have a list of idiots in this Sajha.com forum, with whom
I don't communicate, though sometime they do. Sometime they
come in different avatar, but, I don't spend time to identify
them. These idiots come and go, because they are real idiots.
But, its really surprising that why don't my heart and brain
rejects Nepe ji despite of his tactics of name calling? Because
he is red hot, and he was in the group of 2 dozen peoples
with placard in DC and advertized in Nepal's news media that
Hundreds of people marched in DC news clips and he or others
loved the news clip of 10s time exageration. Nepe ji's name
calling is also based on those 1/10 facts and enlarged to suit
his needs.

Hahahahahah....
GP

Oh, yes, Nepe ji agreed in Sajha.com that the news was exaggeration.
Is Sajha.com a right place to show his dis-satisfaction over news?
Was his dissatisfaction ever appeared in those concerned news papers
or media? He will not do that, because that will harm in his
political CV which no Sajha.com surfers will ever have chance to see
it? Haina ta, Nepe ji? Nepe ji will attach that news clip in his bundled
political CV.... heheheheeh... have fun.


GP

hey, pieces bro, top to bottom, as i have read through too, timrai auta post le malai chuyo..maybe it's cause, you and i stand on the same boat. because we have seen, what these people have failed to understand, and yes thats what i meant by leaving in "pressure" of democracy.



Well, I do have a list of idiots in this Sajha.com forum, with whom
I don't communicate, though sometime they do. Sometime they
come in different avatar, but, I don't spend time to identify
them. These idiots come and go, because they are real idiots.

Katti ghamanda cha afuma, kina yesto ghamanda, what do you all people really consider yourself to be? dammn, Gp, seriously talking, i dont know one Person that has seriously liked your post, i have never heard a sajhaite saying, ooh i liked what Gp said, or OOh i am with GP..then why do you consider yourself superior, Gp, bro, to be an intellectual you have to be below the normal man..and there is Nepe, another ghamandi, who insults everyone that he comes across, cannot debate without cahracterizing a person, he talks like he holds a degree in pscyology, do you?? nepe ji, timilai maile naam bolaera, insult garnu paryo bhanne, u wont visit sajha.com again or i will be banned..dammn sick ppl..and yes, gp, i dont want you to reply to my post, coz i know i am considered as an idiot, that is, on your list..so i have nothing to loose here, so i can say anything i wont. :)

German Philosopher says:

"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"--Nietzsche


I liked this statement. It works for me.
GP

I think the correct version is:

"What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger"--Nietzsche

I don't think that its based on slave morality and neither Nietzche
stated this statement to support slave morality. Then its perfectly
fine to mention this statement here.---GP

What I have managed to get out of this thread is that democracy is great, we should aim for democracy and though a lot of people believe that there needs to be certain pre requisites for a functional long term democracy, there are those who believe that we should aim for democracy NOW instead of trying to creating a suitable atmosphere in which it can be strengthened. These people all at a fundamental level say (in different ways) "democracy is the way, not the end".

What I dont understand is why people who have the latter point of view are so incapable of rational talk. Maybe because the past few years of "democratic heaven" in nepal has been a slap in their faces and they are venting their anger by hurling labels at others. Maybe. Like I said I dont get it at all.

I also dont understand people who have been around for the past 12 years (like me) and seen the pathetic degradation of the democratic system in nepal and instead of thinking of ways to adapt the system to best fit Nepal, are just yelling for more of the same. If someone tries talking to them, they yell "ROYALISTS".

All you self proclaimed "non-royalists" out there, I have always wondered, what is it that you stand for? Its pretty clear what you stand against, but what is it that you support, what is it that you defend? If democracy (as a means) is what you want, surely you are smart enough to know that before implementing it, we need to patch the holes in the system that were exploited by corrupt politicians who brought democracy to its knees. What changes are necessary to the multi party democratic system of government for it to not fail like it did before? Ever thought about that?

If you have no answer, wait for someone who has one, instead of wasting our time with pointless mud slinging.