KATHMANDU, NEPAL, 15-SEP-2002: An army soldier warns photographers not to take pictures as he and other security personnel were on patrol along a busy street in Kathmandu, Sept. 15, 2002. At least four bombs went off today in the capital, a day before a nationwide strike called by Maoist rebels, but no one was injured, police said. [Photo by Devendra M. Singh, copyright 2002 by AFP and ClariNet]

I am tired of all these attempts to denigrate the army from our beloved intellectuals
whose soul is increasingly devoid of courage, and who fail to identify who is their
friend and who is their enemy.

I mean, come on, when hundreds ka hundreds army jawans are dying, people are
trying to ironically smile that 'army is not letting photograph us'. Army deserves
to be cautious. Especially when suicide bombers canard is floating around.

Not long ago, a fellow poster gleefully circulated a highly critical account of
RNA by a foreign reporter, though he wrote that he was not party to the
view of the reporter. And we have these weak intellectuals in Kathmandu
who criticise only those who countenance criticism, and army is an easy
target now.

Our liberalism is equally senseless these days: hundreds of armies slaughtered
by an odious anachronistic movement in the foothills of Himalayas, and liberals
in Europe would like our army to fight with fists with the rebels who smuggle
lethal weapons from the porous border of south under the watchful,meaningful
sanction of the neighbor regularly, not to mention the operatives of those mortars.

RNA is in the danger of meltdown: a revolution may not necessarily take long:
Taliban captured Afganistan quickly, so did Castro and Joseph Kabila.A principled
resistance is what we need all the time. Most and foremost, the intellentsia
and its feigned sagacity in Kathmandu let down the democracy of Nepal, because
of its lack of watchful eyes, and its lack of ability to descriminate between vice
and virtue.

Thanks to the decay and avarice of intelligentsia and leadership in Kathmandu,
people outside Kathmandu doesn't have difficulty in choosing who to support:
they support whoever is in power. No wonder villagers marched with rebels
to attack the fort of Sandhikharka. They were shepherded to attend the
rally of Nepali Congress and Panchayat in the past too.

Having seen the bane of cultural revolution in China, I shudder at the thought
that a group that so openly supports the fourth wife of Mao and a scheming
paranoid Lin Biao who led the cultural revolution is gaining the strengh in
the hinterland of Nepal. At this time, to smirk at a Jawan patrolling in the
petrified street of Tripureshwar or to ask ourselves some serious questions:
it is upto us.

He should have shoot the F*ing photographer on the spot.

HG

eh, launa...

ali selauna paryo Guru-ji...binti chha...goli chain nathoki halaun ki? :)

----

Some good, forceful remarks there Biswo -- the kind we expect from you!

That's why I don't like to army sasan. Army should be in their camp. Maobadi should come in to the barta and present leaders in to the jail. I have samthey to you.

oo vijayaji!! k chala ho tyesto??
army r offering their life to save our country n u say u dont like them??
n wat the shit r maobadi doing?? ki!lling innocent people?? is tha good..???

Biswo wrote:

"Not long ago, a fellow poster gleefully circulated a highly critical account of
RNA by a foreign reporter, though he wrote that he was not party to the
view of the reporter."


I plead guilty to risking Biswo's wrath.

You see, I -- Ashutosh Tiwari -- was that "a fellow poster" who so "gleefully" [and I remain tone-deaf when it comes to reading others' Web postings!] had displayed that
brazen audacity or dastardly temerity (take your pick!) to circulate "a highly critical account of RNA by a foreign reporter" i.e. Lucia, a Dutch journalist living and
working in Nepal.

Maybe I should have asked for Biswo's permission before "gleefully" posting such material that gave a, well, different or unpatriotic perspective on the ongoing
war efforts in our Nepal!!

[See the discussion under the topic: Truth obscured]

Like Biswo, I detest the Maoists.
Period.

Like Biswo, I respect the Royal Nepal Army.
UNlike Biswo, however, I do NOT worship the Royal Nepal Army.

As a citizen, I'd rather have the RNA accountable to the checks and the balances
of our messy democratic processes, and NOT have a tidy carte blanche to do as it
pleases with no sense of accountability to anyone.

If Army jawans are killed -- and killed in numbers higher than 200 on one
week-end -- then, I, as a citizen, want to know just what the hell has the
Army been doing, apparently OBLIVIOUS to the scheming/planning and
approaching thousands of Maoists, as what seems to have happened recently
in Arghakhanci.

Surely, at the very least, somebody at the Defence or Home Ministry or at the relevant institution should lose his job over that many people being killed, right?

I mean, it's been nine months. Le's be realistic. Something's just NOT right with the
way the state is fighting this war.

Sure, I want to believe the Army.
Sure, I want the Army to succeed.
More than anybody else.

But, in return, I, as a citizen, want to be assured -- PUBLICLY through the media, at the very least -- that the Army did and is doing everything possible to crush the enemies, even if it was not successful at times.

And I want sensible reasons to believe the Army and not be fed another dose of some goddamn bullshit as though the Nepali janata were nothing but kindergarten kids.

It's the bullshit, it's the process of being treated like kindergarten kids time after time . . that's what treally gets you after a while: As a citizen, I find this sort of treatment deeply humiliating, offensive, insulting and corrosive to one's confidence on RNA.
And you can't blame me then, on account of all that, if I am begining to have occasional doubts about the RNA. [The pronoun 'I' here could be substituted for any other
Nepali person].

This is why, WITHOUT disrespecting the Army, we have to, in our fragile democracy, give space to alternative views -- NOT because we agree with them per se -- but because we acknowledge that they have a right to exist and that they do exist.

Anything less would be, well, Maoism itself.

*************************

Biswo wrote:

"Having seen the bane of cultural revolution in China, I shudder at the thought
that a group that so openly supports the fourth wife of Mao and a scheming
paranoid Lin Biao who led the cultural revolution is gaining the strengh in
the hinterland of Nepal."


I am quite puzzled by this historical reference, for a number of reasons.

With the exception that both (Maoism in China and in Nepal) were/are violent affairs, the parallels between China's Cultural Revolution and Nepal's Maoist war are tenuous.

First, from what little they have said, Nepal's Maoists have said that their Maoism is a home-grown one, with Prachanda even naming his philosophy as "Prachanda Path".
This does not square well with Biswo's claim that they are openly supporting and following in the steps of Lin Biao and Jiang Qing, who NEVER went on to take
command of the central administration.

Second, Cultural Revolution took place in China in part because Mao had the support
of the armed forces. In Nepal, neither the Maoists are calling their activities some
sort of a "Cultural Revolution" nor do they have the support of the Army.

Third, Mao started Cultural Revolution in part to get back to his own old colleagues
who were, in the mid-1960s, the elites of the Party. Mao encouraged the young
to rebel against their own elders, the very people that Mao had helped to rise in s
tature among the party cadres. In Nepal's Maoist wars, we are NOT seeing this sort
of younger generation turning against the older generation.

And, fourth, a minor point, even the Chinese Embassy in Nepal has issued statements saying that the People's Republic is displeasd with the way Nepal's rebels are misusing Mao's name. Both Lin Biao and Jiang Qing, let us not forget, went on to tarnish Mao's fame among ordinary Chinese people. The implication is clear. If anything, Nepal's rebels -- who proudly all themselves Maoists -- would have nothing to do with the likes of Lin Biao and Jiang Qing.

*********
Finally, in the interest of PULIC debate, in an interest to allow different views come to te fore, I apologize in advance for having "gleefully" suggested another perspective to look into some of these issues.

oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal

Ashu, the Green-eyed Jealous "Peer." He cannot stand anybody coming up with
a good posting with an excellent arugument. He takes one word out
of a lengthy, thought provoking posting and feebly try to use
that against the poster. He might turn this poster into Ashu vs. Biswo.
Beware. That is not the purpose of Biswo's posting.


Hey, when was the last time Ashu came here with an original and
thought provoking posting?

Dear Ashu,

> Nepal's Maoists have said that their Maoism is a home-grown one, with Prachanda
>even naming his philosophy as "Prachanda Path".
>This does not square well with Biswo's claim that they are openly supporting and
>following in the steps of Lin Biao and Jiang Qing, who NEVER went on to take
>command of the central administration.

Maoism can not be homegrown one, period.

Prachanda Path came AFTER the rebellion was started. I am surprised, my friend, that
now you are taking the claim of Maoists (if they have done so) so blindly.

The fact is Nepal's Maoists, and their preceding organization called Ne Ka Paa
(Mashaal), are supporter of "Mahaan Chiniyaa Sanskritik Kraanti", and the slogans
of that purpose could be seen around Tandi until the day I was there. I have
seen articles in Janaadesh and the then Yojanaa about how their beloved "Jiang
Qing" didn't commit suicide but was somehow 'killed' in custody. RIM (Revolutionary
International Movement?) of whom Maoists are members is an international organization
that has as its members the groups of the world that consider "Maoism" (as opposed
to Mao Zedong thought ) as its guiding principle, and takes cultural revolution as
indespensable process to consummate a communist revolution.(And to say Lin Biao
and Jiang Qing were not in central administration is untrue: Lin Biao was designated
heir apparent, and Jiang Qing was, if I remember it correctly, in central comittee,
and was madame Mao.)

So, now I am wondering at your claim that cultural revolution is not what
our "home grown" dudes are so fond of.

You don't even see any relevance of that historic fact right now.

Having met Lao Sanjie (those who were sent to rural China during cultural revolution)
people in China, I still shudder at the fanatics reshuffling the social system in the way
the whole nation has to regret for generations.

And intellectuals at KTM, to take you as example, have somehow , it seems, now
started to feel what is so notoriously called Stockholm Syndrome: the feeling
that hostages feel after living under the duress of hostage-takers for long:the
hostages,it is said,feel that the hostage takers are somehow their protectors.
After living under the constant threat of rebels, it sounds like KTM's intellectuals
have now somehow started to feel that the rebels are gonna be benign.

>Maybe I should have asked for Biswo's permission before "gleefully" posting such
>material that gave a, well, different or unpatriotic perspective on the ongoing
>war efforts in our Nepal!!

No. I never said that.Please put no words in my mouth.

However, what surprised me is this: you circulated that WITHOUT corroborating , if I am
not wrong.

I am saying that, this is what our courageous intellectuals do: they attack whichever
side they find is easy to attack.

Now take this photographer as example: he is trying to take a picture of the Jawaan
as if the Jawaan is in Laakhe Naach to amuse pedestrians. The Jawaan has not
manhandled him, he is just objecting the taking of picture.And the photographer
is trying to make this a (national) issue.

Just a week ago, a Jawaan was shot in Tandi while he was walking on the street
because he was not careful enough with bypassers. How the hell can this jawaan
know who is killer and who is not among the photographers?

This same photographer has probably no courage to go to Maoist area without getting
visa from the rebels, and whenever he goes there, he will be the first one to ask for
permission to take picture.

Take another example,even Al Gore got frisked in USA airport, but in Nepal, our
dear writer Khagendra Shangraula ,whom I respect a lot, whines in Kantipur that
a jawan asked him what kind of book he was carrying with him while checking
his luggage.

People feel free to disparage army. Some people say army was excessively checking.
And yet after the attack of Sandhikharka, it was said that army wasn't even bothering
the strange people who suddenly inundated the sadarmukaam before the attack. (See
Kantipur for comments.)

--

Our intellectuals are like the protagonist of Camus's famous novel "The stranger".
The protagonist was standing in the court, listening to the arguments of his lawyer
and of the prosecutor.While listening, he started to like the arguments of the
prosecutor, who was asking for his death sentence.

Our intellectuals are like that: they are supposed to preserve the pluralist society,
they are supposed to provide energy to this system by providing valuable
suggestion. But they are somehow enamored by the shibboleth of detestable
anachronistic fighters.Some of them even think that Maoists are homegrown
movement with their own ideology.

Ashu, you accuse me of worshipping RNA. But I have always been the one who
supports civilian infusion, reform and equitable representation of all ethnic groups
in RNA. At this moment, when RNA has to fight and organize requiem of lots of
its jawaans simultaneously, what kind of support are our intellectuals giving to RNA
by circulating propoganda about RNA excesses without even bothering to
corroborate the facts?

Biswo, well said: In this posting, each paragraph has its own value,
and this posting is a very good analysis on Nepali Intellectuals in Nepal,
who are suffering from StockSyndrome.

e.g.
Our intellectuals are like the protagonist of Camus's famous novel "The stranger".
The protagonist was standing in the court, listening to the arguments of his lawyer
and of the prosecutor.While listening, he started to like the arguments of the
prosecutor, who was asking for his death sentence.


HG

What Nepali intellectuals have forgotten is to calculate the extend of Maoist Plans.
In China too. Mao used his all opponents to hit their first enemy. He slowly got
support from public, and once he threw first enemy then, threw 2nd and ...
finally thrown all. Its phasing out of their enemies, by aligning with next stage
enemies ...

Yesterday, they(Maoists) asked Girija to quit, Then, Deoba was their preference.
Now, Deob is in power, Girija is given alliance with Maoists. Girija looks like Maoists
spokesman. Did you read the recent article by BRB (Sept. 2), where BRB does not
criticize Girija and his associates, except he mentions, Girija was for his chair....

So, Maoists supporters I meet around here tell that its a tricks given Mao that
you should not attack all enemies at the same time. Phase them out. It is
human psychology that you take action against one enemy, the enemies of that
enemy will become friendly with you. "Dusman ko Dusman is your Mitra" Syndrome.

It is what happening in Nepal. Last time Maoists (till now) separated NC cadres
and killed them as much as they could, UML was enjoying. Now, Maoists
are separating Deoba supporters, sparing UML and Girija Kangress, and I am so
much disappointed to hear from some Girija (from UML supporters its usual
enjoyment when a Kangressi is killed, they think its a death of their enemy too)
Kangressies, "khuchung, balla payou swad. Deoba ko pachi lage ko ma.".

If there was no Deoba Kangress, would MAoists be silent now? Of course no,
now they had made half, so that Girija kangressies are now in favor of fulfilling
Maoists demands .... .....When this process continues ... some more time,
we will find Nepal a hell like place, and all intellectuals will find their place either in
remote Nepal as physical laborer or escape to India, At that time, it will be too
late to realize that they were in fact suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

K. Dixit is one of the front line journalist who is suffering Stockholm Syndrome.
...

HG

1st of all I want to say that I am considering joining Nepal Army after 2 years (U can't join after u're 27 yrs old), despite my College degree and 5 years extensive experience here in US. It has been my family profession since my great grand pa started it.

2nd, Army needs more respect than many of us give. I have 5 friends in Army, most of them stationed to remote area of Nepal. Every time I call their family and ask how each of them are, their relatives literally cry over the phone saying that they themselves don't know how they are. Even though they call their family almost everyday..well night,the entire day their family spend time worrying 'bout their son..hoping they will go through one more day and call their parents.

That is Army life and you should know that is going to happen if you want to be a part of it.But still it demands a lot of courage to join this noble profession, specially in days like these. The pay is bad, the demand is high..need I advertise more? "Be all u can be and don't ask much in return." That specially applies to lower ranks.

I hope you all realize it is not as easy as sitting behind a computer keyboard and triggering the verbal war through 'ASDF-LKJ.'

Please give some respect and consideration to them and their family. It shouldn't be a topic to discuss or debate, it should be an imperative acceptance. Hope u understand.

Dear Devils Pray
This is the fighting of Bhai Bhai. Only Nepalese are fighting. The Nepal army should not fight with Nepali. This is not the motto of Nepal Army.
I am aggree with you Nepal army shaving the country. It means they have authirity to misbehave with journalists, general people and others?? They should be civilized because they are the represetaive of HMG Nepal. I am not agree with Maobadi also. Their way is not good. That's why I am officring to them to come in the talk. Everything will be solved by the peace talk. This government people have mandate for dialogue but now they are hanging Bhote Talcha for the peace talk.
You are aggree with me or not, I don't believe royal nepal army only can solve this problems. The all political party's (might be King??)only can solve through the peace dialogue. The army is only means of the secruity. This is political movement. My advise is immideately start peace dilogue.

Apsara,

I welcome challenges to my thoughts.

That is why I post in my own name, taking full responsibilities for my ideas. I
don't expect everybody to agree with my views, but at least they know my views,
which-- in a manner of OPEN inquiry -- are always evolving in light of better
evidence.

And I like to present challenges to others' thoughts -- NOT as a "jealous peer" but as someone who cares about the ideas and likes to stretch them by trying to look at
them from other sides.
One result of doing is that is that it widens he scope of our learning, and learning is one thing I am passionate about.

If this -- the cut-and-thrust of public debate to stretch learning -- is hard for you to tolerate without hurling adjectives and characterizing others as this and that, then, maybe, this sort of public debate is simply NOT for you.


Biswo,

RNA:

Well, if people feel that way about the RNA, then, let's face it, then RNA has a serious public relations problem, a problem it has done very little to address. Rather
than blaming others for disparaging the Army, why not ask the RNA to take its PR exercise seriously and start winning people's trust by delivering CREDIBLE results?

I mean, to give an example, while jawaans with last names such as Gurung, Rai, Pun, Tamang and others were being killed in the field by the Maoists, the last Sena Pati
was busy publicly releasing an album with songs about "pirati". Earlier, he was busy
in a seven-day long pooja, when, agan, jawans were being killed in the field. Hardly
the sort of behavour that, you know, inspires trust and confidence in the Army leadership, much less in their war strategy.

You call that an exercise in winning people's trust? You know, incidents like the above -- ond and off the field -- have added up to the point now where the RNA needs to think serously about how it wants to start winning what's left of peopl's trust. Thankfully, there are still many of us who, despite our occasionally raised eye-brows, are still on
the RNA's side.

Maoism:

The simple fact that there now exists something called Prachanda Path must
tell you how the Maoists have veered AWAY from the tenets of "chiniya sanskritik
kranti". Sure, they did start with a bow toward the North, but look where they are in their thought process now. That is why, to still see them as followers of Lin Biao and Jiang Qing is to fail to see how Nepali Maoists have evolved themselves to exploit
strategic advantages to their favor. If anything's becoming clear: ideology means
less and less to the so-called Maoists these days.

This is why, to bring up Chna's Cultural Revolution ko kura is good for some historical prologue, but it fails to provide an analysis of why the Maoists are doing hat they are doing today.

[My understanding of recent Chinese history have come from reading and interpreting: "China Wakes" by Nicholas D. Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, and "China: A New History" by Fairbank and Goldman. I am presently reading "Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China" by Jung Chang.]

Intellectuals:

Well, I am NOT a psychoanalyst to declare that those hold different views from me are suffering from some kind of syndrome.

Intellectuals and non-intellectuals in Kathmandu have many faults, but they ARE -- under fairly difficult, unsafe circumstances -- trying every effort to let peace prevail in the country so that we can all get on with their lives.

It's one thing to be critical of certain strategies and thoughts of others, it's completely another characterize others as suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. This sort of characterizaion kills the debate, and reduces ideas to the level of "he-is-like-this-and-no-he-is-not-like-that" sort of parlor-game.

For this kind of debate to go further and have some substance, the one thing we -- intellectuals and non-intellectuals in Kathmandu -- can do without is some sort of
unwarranted characterizaion from afar . . . the kind of characterization, which,
oddly enough, reminds one of Maoist tactics.

oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal

I do not know if I have a myopic vision or some mysterious syndrome, but Biswoji’s notes looks like from someone who is trying to extend the state of Emergency in Sajha too. I am not opposed to the state of emergency in Maoists-infested places, but in Sajha ? I will think twice about that.

Ashu, do what your conscience says. Just because you refuse to close your eyes does not make you a pinch less patriot than any of us.

I am sorry for being so blunt. I wish I could be more polite.

And Apsaraji, could you please refrain from calling names to Ashu ? And what is that complain about him not serving you with ‘thought-provoking’ postings anymore ? Is the fact that he is not *provoking your thoughts* anymore itself not thought-provoking enough ? Please ponder.

Taal taal ka hunchhan manchhe pani !

Biswo, just to digress; your mentioning of Lin Biao reminded me one of the most amusing statements which I must share…before Mao could purge him, and he would submit to Mao's schemes, Lin fled (in an incompletely fuelled aircraft to Mongolia that crashed). Apparently when Mao was informed of Lin’s escape after midnight -- he is said to have said, "Let them go. The skies will rain, and widows will remarry. These things are unstoppable"!

I wanted to ask you if this episode is well-known in China. It’s such a classic statement (I read it in Philip Short’s biography of Mao a while ago). Also, Mao is said to have gone into depression after this in 1972, just like he despaired in '45 after Stalin failed to back him against Chiang Kai-shek. Short argues that in both instances, it was the *Americans* who (accidentally) rescued Mao from his misery: Truman in 1945 and Nixon in 1972.

Now, we'd never have known this reading BRB in Janadesh, would we?!

------

Anyway folks, "skies will rain and widows will remarry" -- think about that :)

In all official documents, Lin Biao's Death is plainly mentioned as a 'Death in an ACCIDENTAL Plane Crash'(In all chinese history books also), but There are also many writers(mainly foreigners) who have described this episode as a 'MYSTERIOUS Plane Crash' I think real truth has not been come out. We all know that such episodes just remain as a 'governemnt secret' for a long time in a country like China.

In many chinese books, he is just describred as a GADDAR.

Anyway, his death occured when his difference with Mao in solving internal matters/foreign policy(mainly for relation with USSR;some events of boundy line clashes happened at that time.1969) was in maximum height.

In 1958, One of the powerful leader PENG DE HUAI(Vice Premier at that time?) Had to resigned from post and later disappeared just coz' he did not fully agree with Mao's 'Great Leap Forward'.

Lin Biao's official residence (until his death) in southern Peking, where I happened to stay for a week, I was surprised to hear a joke on Lin Biao. Of course, peoples said Lin used to live in this great house until before he died in plane crash. Peoples (with some chinese friends) told that Biao was so scared, asked to make house that can not dismantled in one blow of missile. In fact this joke, came when I asked my guru / boss why the wall in this building are so thick. So, they were not sure when evil will come. But, bottle neck was not the almost 1 m thick walled house, but, a few cm walled airplane. ....

HG.
Well, if Deoba or RNA wish, BRB, Prachanda are in similar thin walled place i.e. in India, not in the mass of maoist rebels with guns and ...............

100 % with Ashu!

Respect cannot be demanded--it is EARNED!

Although I do support, and fully respect, the individual jawans that are risking their own lives to save others', RNA as a whole, an organization that is also neck-deep in corruption, nepotism, caste-ism etc., has so far failed to earn any respect from me.

word limit, that is.