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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-18-07 9:53
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Newars, new and old French scholar Gerard Toffin’s work on Newars is finally available in English From Issue #349 (18 May 07 - 24 May 07) | Newars are supposed to be Nepal’s early settlers, according to one theory even lending their name to the country. They form not a caste, but a complex community-—in 1854, the Muluki Ain divided Newars into the equivalent of the four castes, from Brahmins (Rajopadhyaya and Vajracarya), to dalits (Pode and Cyama khalak). There were only scattered references to Newars in the classic accounts of Nepal (Kirkpatrick in 1811, Hamilton in 1819, Hodegson and Oldfield both in 1880). The first comprehensive piece of research on Newars appeared in 1923, in KP Chattopadhyaya’s An Essay on the History of Newar Culture followed, 25 years later by Dilli Raman Regmi’s The Antiquity of the Newars of Kathmandu. Western scholars started to focus on Newar communities after Gopal Singh Nepali’s full-length book in 1965. One of them was Gerard Toffin. In the last 30 years, Toffin, now a director of research at France’s mammoth National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS), has written a number of papers exploring different aspects of Newar culture. Most of Toffin’s work is in French (bar a two-page preface to the 1993 Nepal: Past and Present, which he edited), and non-speakers have long felt the need for translations. Himal Books’ new volume of selected papers by Toffin is good news for academics and laypeople. The 13 research papers in Newar Society: City, Village and Periphery are based on extensive fieldwork and personal observation and constitute a significant contribution to the social study of Nepal. Toffin begins with the Citrakars, Rajopadhyayas, and Maharjans of the city. In his work on the painter Citrakars, he focuses on their two main guthis (si guthi and desla guthi), kinship and marriage patterns and, of course, their art, which sometimes functions as medicine. Toffin describes how they treat Jwanakai, which is thought to be caused by snakes, by painting two lions on the sides of the affected area. The chapter on the Rajopadhyayas mainly deals with the history of the caste and their role as the priests of Hindu Newars. The author argues that, despite substantial changes in their tradition and rituals, the religious identity of the Rajopadhyayas is still largely intact. Toffin’s chapter on the social and territorial organisation of the Maharjans of Kathmandu city—their twah or tol system—and their vocal and instrumental music. To readers who equate Maharjans with farmers, this new information is fascinating. The three papers on the little known Lalitpur Maharjan village of Pyangaon come from Toffin’s long periods of fieldwork. He makes a detailed study of Swagumi, who “adopted a Jyapu lifestyle and became Newarised†in one, and in another provides a picture of intercaste relationships, particularly between ‘pure’ and ‘impure’ castes, and the position of Swagumi within the Newar caste system. Toffin’s third Pyangaon paper is about the socio-religious structures of the Maharjans, this time as villagers. A detailed comparative study of the Maharjans in city and village would have been welcome. Two chapters are devoted to the little-known Balami and Pahari communities who live on the ‘periphery’, defined here as “the intermediate space located between Kathamandu Valley and the middle hills of central Nepal and its forested areasâ€. Toffin convincingly identifies them with Newars, because their caste, kinship, and guthi rules are the same, as is their language. Three papers focus on specific aspects of Newar society, the guthi system, the Mohani festival, and funeral rites in relation to the Newar castes. Toffin explains how guthis “regulate several aspects of Newar social and religious life, and even possess economic functions in some limited casesâ€. Similarly, he analyses how Panauti Newars observe the Mohani festival with special devotion to Asta Matrika, Nava Durga, Taleju, and Kumari, and how the 14 different Newar caste, from Rajopadhyaya to Pode, of the area perform funeral rites. The last two chapters deal primarily with the recent changes in urban and rural Newar society. One focuses on the role of modern ethnic associations in constructing the identity of a particular caste or group, the other on the changing status and role of women in Newar society, in the context of recent amendments in the Muluki Ain. All the papers were written at different times as independent articles. Together they sometimes lack coherence, or can get repetitive. What pulls the volume together is Toffin’s 21-page introduction, which successfully synthesises the different themes explored and reflects an up-to-date understanding of Newar society and culture. There are some omissions and errors. Except in a few cases, the data on population, household, and the like are dated. For example the 2001 census puts Citrakars and Rajopadhyaya at over 5,000 each, while Toffin’s essay says there are 1,200 and 1,500 respectively. The Jyapu Mahaguthi and Citrakar Samaj are mentioned, but not the Manandhar Sangh which was founded in 1954. The discrete index entries for Manandhar and Sayami, the same caste group, are confusing. History of Nepal was written by BJ Hasrat, and not RL Hasrat. The collection would also have benefited from a glossary of Newari terms. These minor shortcomings do not, however, lower the standard of the book. Toffin’s work is a significant contribution to the study of Newar society and culture, and, as the publisher’s note says, “will certainly be very useful to the Newar themselves to help them understand their own society differently, if not better. It will also prove extremely informative to non-Newars in understanding one of the most ancient, complex, and fascinating social groups of Nepal.†(Tri Ratna Manandhar is professor of history at Tribhuban University.) Gerard Toffin, Newar Society: City, Village and Periphery, Lalitpur: Himal Books for Social Science Baha, 2007, soft cover, pp. xiv+443, Rs 790. http://www.nepalitimes.com/issue/349/Review/13550
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Hussain_Khan
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Posted on 05-18-07 10:28
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One day there will be, Jyapu (Maharjan, Dangol etc...) Society Shyasyo (Shrestha, Amatya....etc) Society Bare (Sakya, Bjracharya....etc) Society Tamo (Tamrakar....etc) Society Naa (Sahi....etc) Society Pode (Nepali, Pode...etc) Society ..... ..... Rajkarnikar, Ranjitkar, Chitrakar ..... so on.... Society Is this good for Nation? Won't it create ethnic misleading?
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uptowngal
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Posted on 05-18-07 10:38
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Mr khan it not sakya its shakya.
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uptowngal
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Posted on 05-18-07 10:39
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-18-07 11:23
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Dear Khan, please read above article first, and then if you want, we can discuss further into it because the allegations that you're making is different that what this book has to offer. So if you still want to discuss about your questions, which is not really in context with this book, then sure we can also do that. But at least, I'd like to request you to read above article first because we often like to make judgements or comments without even reading or knowing the facts or based on our own prejudices. I'm sorry if the title has been misleading. The title has nothing to do with establishing another organization of 'Newar Society'. This is just the book that discusses some interesting things about cultures of newar society.
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Hussain_Khan
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Posted on 05-18-07 11:30
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- gahugoro sir, I am not commenting on your presentation. I am just saying that ethnic groupism will not result in good outcome. My input may not be relevant to your topic. Your collection is appreciated. I am just against ethnic division. Thats all. I apologize if I was wrong. Peace.
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-18-07 11:32
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Not one day, there're already these societies, but not for creating ethnic conflicts. These are 'the guthis', which you can translate in english as 'societies', which has been existing for many generations, and never created any ethnic conflicts yet. Answer to your first question: It depends on how you see it. Divisions are good if it is for the beauty and for the sake of variety like different flowers in a garden. But it is bad when some extremists come and insist that only their flowers are best, and look down on others. Answer to your second question: I disagree. You're trying to take jobs away from those good sociologists :p if I understood your question correctly. Can you please redefine what you mean by the term 'ethnic misleading'?
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-18-07 11:36
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I agree that ethnic groupisms of the conservatives and extremists will not bring good outcome. But we're bound to our own cultures and are attached to it. So with respect for that if we follow our customs and cultures, and also with the equal respect towards all cultures of the world, it won't create conflicts.
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chanaa_tarkaari
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Posted on 05-18-07 12:52
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Khan, Your opinion might not be always true, particularly in viewing the groupism among Newars. Newars are divided based on their profession, and each of them do maintain high dignity on whatever they are for. A prajapati feels equal proud to say him so, as a maharjan or tamrakar does, because all of them know that they have inherited a unique profession and culture that is needed for the society. The society is formed in a way that every groups need every other group to fulfil their needs but they rarely need outsiders. Those who do not understand this interdependency of newar subgroups and how the entire newar community is formed to be a solid integrated system of different sub-systems confined through their professions reinforced by their own unique culture, they do grow up a lot kind of negative feeling. They tend to bully, criticize and make fun of the aesthetic of newar society. I agree, there are some division and feeling of upper/lower casts among newars, which is not as bad as in the past. Pode, chyame, jugi, naye etc. who were not allowed to touch water in the past, are being welcomed to seat in the same row of sukuu bhoye. Yet, the level of discrimation is not perfectly gone but they are going to disappear soon. Newar groups and subgroups did never display any extreme hate or isolation among themselves. Gahugoro, I have not read the book yet, the book seems a good one. but I can smell some mis-representation and wrong interpretation of newar societal values in the book as Tri-ratna manandhar dai pointed out. However, the authors hard work is highly appreciable. I do agree with your answers too. Perhaps we both are talking the same.
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-21-07 11:07
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http://www.kantipuronline.com/Nepal/pdf/pg_50.pdf
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samir28
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Posted on 05-21-07 11:21
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Division and caste system still exists within the newar community, and I don't think it started just after the Muluki Ain. They were divided a long time before that, probably during the times of Jayasthiti Malla. And the discrmination that exists between the castes within the Newar community is unimaginable even today. The rules are the most strict ones in comparision to ny other Nepali community. Higher caste 'hindu' Newars will never have an arranged marriage with 'Buddhist' newars. And do you know the consequences if a Joshi or a Rajopadhyaya marries a Sayami / Dongol ?? It is as worse as marrying someone out of the Newar community, if not more. And Pode / Chyame / Kusule and other untouchable castes being allowed to enter the homes Newars of higher castes is an unimaginable dream even today, that too in the core city areas of Kathmandu Metropolis.....Strange but very true.
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samir28
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Posted on 05-21-07 11:25
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"Newar groups and subgroups did never display any extreme hate or isolation among themselves" Chana_tarkari ji, I disagree. The rules in the Newar community regarding its sub groups and castes is very rigid and it exists till this date. There has not been much change in this aspect, at least not among the majority of the Newar population.
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-21-07 11:53
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Actually, I revived this thread thinking to incorporate recent literature in context of newars. Samir Jee, I don't want to sound like that I'm trying to defend. But I thought of adding few lines. I don't know when caste system got roots in Newar society, but it exists and it is bad. I won't make a strong conclusion as saying 'the rules are strict ones in comparision to other nepali community' unless we've data or know about other community. In fact, we don't bother to know much about other communities. That conclusion is baseless unless we've knowledge of each and every nepali community. The word 'arranged marriage' itself means finding the best compatible match. So obviously one'd look for caste and religion and other stuffs. But I've seen many marriages among hindu and buddhist newars. It is not that much of a big deal. I totally disagree that if conservatives consider it as bad as marrying outside newars because the language is another most important thing, and you'll find many hindu idols inside buddhist newar's houses. Most of buddhist newars are aware of hindu customs and texts like ramayana, mahabharat, and others. It is another story that hindu newars know much less than what buddhist newars know of hinduism. Your last statement about pode, chyames still hold true in many houses.
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samir28
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Posted on 05-21-07 12:13
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gahugoro ji, I've written these things from my own experiences coz I belong to the same community. What I meant by 'arranged marriage' was that you can't think of marriage within a Newar community as an 'arranged marriage' of a gurung with another gurung or a bahun with another bahun. Newar community has many castes and communities within itself, they are arranged on a hierarchical basis and you can't think of 'arranged marriage' of one Newar with another Newar in similar light. Well you may have seen a 'hindu' newar marrying a 'buddhist' newar or a Joshi marrying a Manandhar / or Bajracharya. But I have also seen a 'bahun' marrying a 'Damai' and a 'Chhetri' marrying a 'Tamang'. Exceptions are everywhere, but that is not the usual norm right? So you may have seen the exceptions but they are by no means the norm among the majority, even in the core areas of the Capital city. Being aware of hindu customs is one thing, but these things are not considered in practical life. A 'bajracharya (the buddhist guru)' marries either a bajracharya or a shakya or a dhakhwa, no one else is allowed. You can conduct a survey in the Thamel area regarding this matter, the so called tourist hub of Kathmandu or in New Road, and you will be surprised to know the resuls. Language can be one common point, but the other aspects of Newar culture are so diverse and the beliefs are so deeply held that it will take some more centuries to find more common grounds for Newar unity. To put it simply, its like the "maithili' community, everyone there may be bound by the 'maithili' language, but you can't find grounds for unity between a Jha / Mishra or a Chamaar / Dom, just on the basis of linguistics. Right ? And my statements about pode / chame etc holds true in almost every household. I am yet to find a Newar house where it doesn't hold true.
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-21-07 12:27
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As I said, arranged marriage itself means seeking the match within own community. Regarding pode/chame, it's not true in every household. I'd allow them in my house. We've allowed them earlier but they were not practicing the same old professions. I'm confused by your statement of finding 'unity'. We need to erase our 'narrow-mindedness' and see not only newars irrespective of religion but every other race as same, and interest to learn and respect about other cultures. I'm more optimistic than you about the time frame you've mentioned.
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samir28
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Posted on 05-21-07 12:39
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Ok, its great to be optimistic but optimism ise good if its based on reality.
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zibaldon
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Posted on 05-21-07 12:40
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If u just take a look at newars & their physical appearances u will be surprised to find multiple complexes .....u will almost find entire face of Nepal.....Rajopadhayas Newars resembles very much like Pahadey Bramhins ....Shresthas can also resemble to Pahadey Chettris & lots of them has Mongolian face.........
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Hussain_Khan
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Posted on 05-21-07 1:26
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I am newar. Few years ago I was about to marry a her who is from so called higher cast of Newar family. I went through so many difficulties to marry her. I almost gave up. Finally I had to run with her and hide for some months. My wife's family still don't accept us. We are still have in trouble with those higher cast family. gahugoro Ji, please give me youth thoughts if you were in my situation. Talking and giving idea is much much easier than being your self in the actual situation.
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gahugoro
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Posted on 05-21-07 1:39
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I thought we had only hindu and buddhist newars; good to know that there're some muslim newars as well :p I understand what you're saying. I never denied that cast system exists and it sucks. Only I was trying to argue about which community had the most strict rules. By the way, glad to know about your own true story that became success, and you're living happily everafter, and not true about all that you were claiming about in one of the hottest threads sajha ever saw. That thread really reflects our mentality and attitude and our level of thoughts, and it exists in most of nepalese communities, be it newar or others. If I were in your shoes, I'd have done the same as you did. Nevertheless, I've my own stories to share about these conservative newars. I hope that they'll realize it soon and change their mentality.
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chanaa_tarkaari
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Posted on 05-21-07 7:07
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Well, it is often hard to convey message if your head is pre-occupied with hate and anger. I am afraid if my earlier post was comprehended properly, I am going to elaborate some of my earlier points here. My focal point was Those who do not understand the interdependency of newar subgroups and how the entire newar community is formed to be a solid integrated system of different sub-systems confined through their professions reinforced by their own unique culture, they do grow up a lot kind of negative feeling. I see all your venoms secreted here is the reflection of the same negative feeling. In addition to that I also wrote - there are some division and feeling of upper/lower casts among newars, which is not as bad as in the past. Pode, chyame, jugi, naye etc. who were not allowed to touch water in the past, are being welcomed to seat in the same row of sukuu bhoye. Yet, the level of discrimation is not perfectly gone but they are going to disappear soon. I added then Newar groups and subgroups did never display any extreme hate or isolation among themselves. Yes, you guys brought issues disagreeing with me particularly highlighting the cast discrimination among newars. But what you are referring as the example of discrimination is the age-old scenario. Have you recently been to any newar gathering and social activities in Nepal ? Did you have closely looked into the structure and level of tolerance on cast issues among Newar populous in general? If yes, you will see the level of rigidness in touchable/untouchable matter and the cast-based pride is reduced to almost nil. Our society has changed and changing much rapidly than what you are thinking of that while you stay considerable time of your active life abroad. Those people, who were not allowed to go upstairs in one's house 20 years ago, are now seating side by side, eating foods supplied from the same kitchen. People do not hesitate to use utensils exchanged among multiple cast-groups of the society unlike 3 decades ago. There is almost no cast-based resistance in entrances to temples, festivals, social events, restaurents, public gathering etc. Don't you consider such a drastic change a positive sign that is corecting the wrong past? Why you guys are talking the 30 years old stuffs with added masalaa trying to show as if Newar society has no change in this modern era? If you don't recognize such a great social change taking now as the positive sign, then I have every reason to believe you guys are doomed. It is not fair to involve the issue of so called "arranged marriage" in this debate as this process allows one to chose bride/groom from the family/parent who may set criteria as they wish. Some may like to match cast, some may see economic status, some may see level of education, some may see geographical boundaries, some may see family health records and all sort of likes and dislikes. It is up to them. You can't interpret every likes and dislikes as the racist feature. A story on struggling against family to marry a girl/boy liked by him/herself has very less to do with the racist/discrimination, but more with the parental pride and feeling that makes them too conservative to think their kid should follow the family-decision. Newly-wed couple standing against their family-wish may voluntarily leave parental house searching a better life or they may be kicked out from home as if their parents punish for disobeying. But you can't generalize such a story which is very personal and case-dependent. Such a couple may gather huge fortune or may go to endless struggle depending upon the route they elect to live. You can't relate their fortune or tragedy simply to the cast of your own. You can't blame the entire newar community for your failure to earn acceptance from your parents and/or family-in-laws, It is your problem of being unable to win their respect and build good interpersonal relation. I don't deny home-entry was a problem in the past among different sub-cast groups of newar, but there were (and are) tradition of involving people of different cast together in social functions. For example, our society teaches you to respect a Napit (Nau) as equal as a Bajracharya (Guruju) or Rajopadhyaya (Bajya) because until a Nau does not complete his cultural role in your rituals, they are never complete despite having presence of Bajya or Guruju, There are a lot of such a fine arrangement of duties bound by belief and tradition that tie you tightly with all cast groups in the community despites having hierarchy in their recognition. Would that be possible to keep functioning such a system for centuries if newars used to have hate and isolation among their various cast groups? No. To understand such a finely structured social system, you need to involve yourselve in social responsibilities, guthis, take active roles in major ceremonies of birth, death, bratabandh, ihi, barha, jankwo, and other social activities like cultural musics, dance, festivals etc. It does not surprise me when I hear a very superficial criticism of Newar society and societal values by those people who have never engaged themselve deep into the tradition and culture of Newar populous, who are isolated from all sort of family responsibilities and social duties in the name of building their career, who are never educated on the aesthetics and social inter-relationship among different cast groups, and had never attempted to seek positive but only reciprocated negative comments floating elsewhere. Newar society as a whole is not a regressive society. It can change to meet the demand of time but few individuals of the society who pioneers the change, definitely face hard time. I myself was once badly isolated in the community when I disobeyed home entrance restriction among different cast groups some 20 years ago. I struggled entering every houses, eating together with upper/lower cast group people, spending time in houses irrespective of their cast, which was definitely criticized by a cast-sensitive conservatives then. I was chased from bhajan mandali, was not allowed to enter guthi, etc. There were plenty of rigid people but they are not to blame because such a rigidity also do have some sort of contribution to retain the robustness of system. I am glad I tried breaking a rigid mentality on wrong practice and was successful in my tole, relatives and nearby area to reduce (if not eliminate) the level of rigidity in cast-based feeling. My hard effort has paid me now as I do have good friends in a good newar community. People listen me, and they are in good relation with me. Local people believe I am an influential person who has earned respect from a large mass of marginalized cast groups. It needs patience and effort to clean up some of wrong traditional practice, but if you keep on vomiting your negative feeling but without attempting any positive contribution to clean up, how can I agree with you guys then? Yeah, I can ask you to mold your opinions in different way by involving deep into the culture and traditional practice. You will never be able to understand them by hating the traditional values and biting hamburger in foreign land.
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