http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=56954

Friends,

What inference can you draw from Peter Karthak's so nicely expressed views in this article? Particularly the last three concluding paragraphs might be indicative of the situation we are in Nepal?? Let us say it is a very interesting article, to say the least.
Mr. Karthak is an excellent writer who seems to express his views as he sees them. Imagine where he would land if he begun to write on the Nepal politics.

nirwan,
Thanks for the handle. Yes, Karthak is a noted writer - had a quick read on the article. Interesting musings over the times gone by. My apologies - when I read it, I missed giving myself the cue from your perspective of "inference". Would have jumped to the link without having read your post. So, no comments.

But trust that my fellow posters will have inputs to share. So, fingers crossed.

Have a nice sunday... carpe diem

Thanks for the link, Nirwan. I have come to enjoy reading Peter Karthak - especially his writings about life in Darjeeling. I had originally read a write-up by Karthak many years ago that really resonated with me. I am fascinated by some of the things he writes about and its nice to bump into this work on Kantipuronline every now and then. I hope we get to read many more of his stories.

I have had a love-hate relationship with Darjeeling (it's been more love than hate though) Someday, when the muse stops by for a long visit, I intend to write about it here on Sajha ... re kya :) Till then I will continue to be an avid consumer of Karthak's inspiring tales about Darjeeling :)

To good life and literature.

Capt Haddock,
Hope the elusive muse does eventually find its way to the Haddock land. Good luck and we'll look forward to the endless rounds of your gripping 'ramblings'! Btw, read Karthak's novel recently published in English? If you have, care to share your inputs?

Cheers. To good life, good humour and literature.

Sandhurst - Are you talking about "Every Place : Every Person : A Himalayan Tale from Darjeeling"? You know what, I ordered the book only last week! I expect it will get here in the next couple of days. Not sure when I will get the chance to actualy read it but I'll drop you a line on Sajha when I do.

And by the way, brother, why would you say what I write are "ramblings"? Bhaena testo, Lahure dai, you are judging me before you even read me. If anything, I thought you would put forward some words of encouragement but on the contrary you are throwing cold water on budding literary ambitions. I am hurt ... he he he he ... just kidding ... LOL.

To life, laughter and literature [sorry couldn't resist the tempattion to alliterate it :) ]

Here is a snippet of a copy of the aofore-mentioned article. Are talking about the Bahun Chhetri inference? And are saying that the author is implying that the tea estate was well run and managed because of absence of Bahun-Chhetris and somehow Nepal would be better off if we could somehow get rid of all of these "corrupt" Bahun Chhetris?

Badamtam could rightly be called one of the most ideal and perfect British-owned and -managed tea plantations in entire Darjeeling. It was peaceful, orderly, tranquil, efficient and oriented to work and production. I never saw any breakdown of law and order; not a single policeman entered the garden on any pretext. The management and the non-unionised workers settled all differences and irregularities between them. The management was entirely in the able hands of Nepalis, except for the two British planters - the Bada Saheb and Chhota Saheb. The only two other non-Nepalis in Badamtam were the Bengali doctor and the Bihari merchant with his ration shop and provision store.

In my time, Badamtam Tea Estate's chief accountant was a Gurung, his two assistants were a Rai and a Yakha. The headmaster was a Tamang.

The chief mechanic at the motor workshop was a Pradhan. Limbus, Mukhiyas, Dewans and other Nepalis worked as clerks, teachers, drivers, tea treatment technicians, carpenters and electricians and manned other official and supplementary departments. I saw not a single Bahun or Chhettri in Badamtam but Kamis or Bishwakarmas worked as ironsmiths and operated the foundries, the lathes and other machines in the factory complex. Some Damai families worked briskly as tailors. A couple of regular Mussalman "biscuitwalla"-s made rounds of the garden, selling their tasty biscuits, buns, puffs, "queen" cakes and delicious meatballs off their large tin boxes which they carried on their thickly turbaned heads.

Life in general, I must admit, was indeed good in Badamtam Tea Estate of the Lebong Tea Company.

Kundale - I guess we will have to ask Mr Karthak what exactly he was getting at :) I hope someone does and takes him to task over it. My own take on what is implied is that the masses have become capable of running the show without the involvement of the former elites - firstly the British and subsequently Bahuns and Chettris and there is no better proof of that than at Badamtam. There are times when I wish writers, like Karthak, who tell great stories find more palatable ways of talking about caste. However, caste is the 10,000-kilo elephant in the room in any story about Nepali society and I think Mr Karthak chose to deal with it rather than brush it aside.

My 2 cents.

Haddock jee,

hahahahah.... sorry hai.... I call anything I pen down as 'ramblings'--- a sleep of tongue bhayechha. Risaani maaf paun.. :) Ramblings - not literally, as in grand gripping tales, anecdotes, aadi ityaadi. Jokes aside, you have my full encouragement, mate and I look forward to your contributions in due course. Can I btw say that I do really enjoy reading your posts - you're one of those few Sajha writers with a gifted mind to analyse issues with precision? With original thoughts. (I'm serious).

Every Place : Every Person : A Himalayan Tale from Darjeeling"?
Yes, that was the one. I have yet to order a copy of the book. Pse do share your thoughts hai once read. Many thanks and take care.

***************
""his two assistants were a Rai and a Yakha.""
Note: Yakha is actually a Rai sub-caste, like Bantawa, Chamling, Thulung etc.

Have a good day.

Dear Capt C and SH Lahure,

Not much left for me to say since you two have said it all and said it well. Enjoyed reading your exchange of views. I wonder why many others Sajhaites, who jump to pour their views at the slightest caste related topic, are not participating in this thread. Is it because the truth is bitter? Anyway, perhaps, I say perhaps, should the Badamtam tea company, as presented by PK, be considered for a discussion to be a role model given the crisis with no end in sight here in Nepal? Just a thought to pursue discussion on this thread.

Right on Haddock, like you I also do not have a direct insight into Karthaks' mind, but make my inferences based on his writing, both the present one and his past articles too. Given that Karthak is a good writer (sometimes gets a little tedious with his old queens' english) but nevertheless and has witnessed a lot of changes from his begining at Darjeeling at its' heydays and his subsequest settlement in good old KTM.

Now this is my analysis. I think part of his bitterness toward the ruling Bahun Chhetri elite stems from the fact that Mr. Karthak comes from a minority caste and doubly so, because he is a Christian too. And as you rightly point out he does try and address the 1000 pound elephant in the room, which is the whole deal with casteism in Nepal. We do still have a highly patriarchial society in Nepal and the ruling class is a Bahun-Chhetri nexus with people of other castes dotting the landscape here and there. The fact that people of these castes make the highest segment of population may have something to do with it. That aside, the question that we have to seriously ask and try to address is that "Is the rampant corruption, mismanagement, general apathy, crime, political disillusionment, social ills etc explained only by the caste angle? And if it is, what are the ways to deal with it?" I do agree that identifying the problem is in effect half of the problem solved, as Mr. Karthak has rightly done. But is caste the only problem. COnsider a Nepali society, as in the Tea Estate, minus the Bahuns and the Chhetris, would that somehow magically remove all the social ills that we have and somehow pull us out of this stagnation and purgatory that we find Nepal in right now? I seriously doubt that analysis. At this point, one must not forget that the minorities also have no love lost for the elites, the "racism" or "casteism" goes both ways and in effect is a two way street.

Not to say that the Bahun Chhetris have not taken advantage of their relative social standing for their own benefits and that too at the cost of putting the people of minority in the shadows. But we do need to find a problem around that. A good way might to have social inclusion by the ways of cross caste marriage (that still is unheard of in Nepal, inbreeding is rampant and the genetic pool is not diversifying). We also need to chuck this concept of government as a religious based organaziation, seperation of church and state as they would say in different part of the world, but I would like to say, seperation of "temple and state".

And you know what, it is up to the people who are in a position of advantage to do something about it. That is the Bahun and Cheetris themselves have to initiate this idea of inclusion. In any society, I think, it is the responsibility of the majority to take care of the minority and not let the minority feel as second class citizens.

Am I making sense or has this become a rambling..............?

Sandhurst Lahure, Nirwan, Kundale -

Check out this thread on Darjeelingnews forum: - http://darjeelingnews.net/forumdarjeeling/viewtopic.php?t=910 . It has a couple of reviews of the book and Mr Karthak himself has participated in the thread!

Sandhurst Lahure - Ke he esto - blowing hot one moment and cold the very next! He he - just kidding. I think you are an amazing person and I was only pulling your leg :)

Kundale - I am with you on everything you have said - both in terms of defining the problem as well as the possible solutions. I have a couple of things in mind I'd like to share but am short of time right now - I will come back this evening to post more on the subject. :)

Nirwan - I have some ideas on why people are reluctant to speak up on this issue - will share them when I am back.

Have a good day all.

Kundale - You bring up some great points. A couple of comments and thoughts:

- There needs to be a sense of generosity on the part of both Bahun/Chettris and SETAMAGURALIs on issues of caste and ethnicity. Bahuns and Chetris should own up to the fact that discrimination has been practiced in their names even if they have not been individual contributors. Likewise, people of the other castes need to accept the fact that the average Bahun or Chettri is as much a victim of oppression at the hands of a corrupt elite as the rest of the population. The real struggle is against an entrenched elite that occupies the highest echelons of power and has misused that power time and again against *all* Nepalese.

- Getting back to the story, as much as I have come to enjoy reading Mr Karthak, I have had to take his comments on caste with a grain of salt. While I look at the last set of comments in a generally positive light, he leaves the door wide open for different interpretations. His nostalgic references to the Raj makes one wonder if they are indicative of a sub-conscious inferiority complex towards the former rulers of India. When he says there were 2 British guys in the tea estate, one is left to wonder whether he is implying the managerial skills of those guys, and not necesarily the absence of Bahuns or Chettris, is what is responsible for the smooth state of affairs at the tea estate. The idea of a society without Bahuns and Chetris may sound romantic and appealing to some but the Badamtam example doesn't do it a whole lot of justice because it leaves a lot of gaping holes in the theory.

- All said and done, Mr Karthak deserves praise for his work and I eagerly look forward to reading his book. He seems like an interesting guy and I had a good laugh reading some of his comments on the Darjeeling forum.

haddock, my thoughts exactly. while one would wish for an ideal society without "Bahuns and Chhetris" and all forms of societal disfunctionalities, one cannot wish them away and unfrtunately work with them. it is the myopia in the society that we must fight instead of playing the blame game.

about Mr. Karthak, he did come along with a great series of posts in KTM post a few months ago about reminiscenses of 60's and 70's KTM. i liked that series of articles. i haven;t read "everyman everyplace" yet, but one of these days will. I doubt that Mr. Karthak is much a fan of the "Raj", but he grew up when the "Raj" was collapsing and di witness the decay of Darjeeling along with dysfunction that set in Sikkim after the Indian takeover, that may be the root of his discontent.

the whole deal with stagnation of Nepali society is something else and should be discussed in detail in other posts, i guess.

Quite a diverse workforce at Badamtam Tea Estate and to blend so wonderfully so as to share the fruits of success in the end must have certainly been rewarding to all.

To me Darjeeling was "love at first sight" and although it was a short three day college trip ten years ago, I feel like it was just yesterday that I first visited the place that mesmerized me to the core. Before that I had always wondered what a "hillstation" looked like and having heard so much about the place from my hostel owners, my expectations of the place were pretty high and surprisingly, it didn't fail me. Whether it was the windy road, the mini train with its peculiar sound, or the lovely tea gardens, the colorful monasteries the busy chowrasta, or even houses etched on the hills that made a breathtaking view from afar; everything about Darjeeling was pleasing to the senses. I would definitely love to visit Darjeeling again hoping that this time it will be a longer stay. :)

On another note, as a first time visitor, Mr. Karthak should be participating on this thread pretty soon. Since the ongoing discussion here is pretty interesting, I thought he might like to join and he said he will.

Mr.Karthak is indeed a prolific writer and he is at his best when it comes to writing about what is closest to his heart- DARJEELING.
Darjeeling.. Dorjeyling and for some of us- Darj, has been one place filled with fond memories- be it happiness or sorrow, the day to day struggle for the basic amenities.And yes the ever so warm social atmosphere that Darjeeling holds is not to be found elsewhere...
The novel in mention is worth a read-tracing the history of this beautiful place it meanders into a beautiful story.The author so vividly portrays each and every nook and corner of the Queen of the Hills. The characters are' us 'and we are 'them'.For me,the Protagonist of the novel is Priya.The story 'is' her and her act of forgiveness is heroic.
The rest of the characters are life like.. i get a feeling of having bumped into such people while walking through chowrasta, or while strolling in the mall,or even while walking through the busy streets of chowk bazaar and making our way to the taxi stand.
The girls College that is in mention is closer to my heart and i was able to identify myself with Priya in a lot of ways.I must say that i got to live with the nun in mention and she was one strong woman!
Priya says " everybody's leaving"-didn't it strike a chord somwhere?...I don't know about youl but i felt a pang of guilt.....

Yikes..sorry readers..i got carried away.Just realised i was off track.. Trust me ,I always do that!;);)

Phoenix, what is the name of that place where they have pony rides? We stopped there first before heading up to Darj. I forgot the name but that place was beautiful as well.

Here's Peter Karthak's response via Email.

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Sajha.com is quite erratic in registering and slow in loading up. It also has difficulties for logging my replies to the Sajhedar friends; so I haven't been able to register in it as yet. But I've read all the "inferences" and "ramblings" of the readers.

I think the respondents are mostly Nepalis of Nepal who love to get busy in what I call "cognitive dissonance" - the diplomacy of debates and love for arguments, the art of splitting hairs which are already thin anyway. One says that Yakhas are Rai this and Rai that. Well, in Badamtam, they were distinctly Yakhas and that was that! Another raises the point of Bahuns and Chettris being absent from Badamtam and has his own "inferences" on that, raising the questions of Jats and Janajatis etc etc. Well, the "tall tea tales" series is still continuing in the Sunday edition of The Kathmandu Post; it will conclude after four more insertions. Only then, readers can reach their conclusion.

Most of my reactions to Sajha members are provided by Manjushree Thapa in her weekly article of yesterday (Nov 15) entitled "Writer's work" in The Kathmandu Post (she writes every week for the paper now). She distinguishes between journalists and their objectivity and fiction writers and their subjectivity. Manju and I are both and I know what she means. In my articles, I'm a reporter and I write matter of factly and hence without my personal comments or speculations. These are the business of readers, and that's what I see in the Sajha members as a "provoked" lot in dissecting my sentences and trying to find their preferred mysteries and meanings in them. It's a rather futile undertaking in my humble opinion - one can't deconstruct unnecessarily and unwantedly. But this letter to you can be posted in the website as my response because I'm having problems unlocking the chat or reply boxes of Sajha.com. I also wish the website were more simplified and functional and devoid of the excessive color displays and highfaluting slogans and propagandist nationalism.

I'm glad to know that my novel "EveryPlace: EveryPerson" is generating much interests among the Sajha readers. This coincides with the fact that I sent a copy of the novel to an interested lady publisher in Bangalore for Indian/worldwide imprint because publishing in Kathmandu alone isn't enough for marketing and promoting my novel.

By the way, there's a new novel called "Fragile Mountains" by Madan Kumar (MK) Limbu who works with the Gurkha children in Brunei, teaching them computers. I'm glad to say I helped with my own bit in having the novel published by my own publisher, Vajra Books. We at The Kathmandu Post reviewed the novel last Sunday. Sajha members may help by reading it; it has many strands of the chronic problems in Nepal - Bahun/Chettri/Newar/Adibasi/Janjati conundrum, Maoism, feudalism and oh God, what not! A moveable feast of topics and opinionated inferences and speculations for Sajha.com membes.

Once again, I thank you for connecting with me and for introducing me to Sajha. More later when you revert to me at your own convenient time.

Most affectionately

Peter J. Karthak

Dear Peter Uncle......... how u doing??? ( I know u dont like being called Uncle ;))

Well, Its been long we ve not met. U might be wondering who I am as my real name is hidden here. ANyway do u remember our first meeting at Bakery Cafe at Baneshwor? Then we also had some rendezvous in "The Himalayn Times" but I dont want to introduce here in Sajha......... ha ha ha ......

Its always interesting to go through ur article. And I would like to thank u for appreactiting my work, it was U who encouraged me to get published many articles . Im totally inspired by your way of writing......Hey ..do u remember????? once I told u over phone SAMRAT UPADHYA'S best writer ??? and that were YOU....

Well, now Im in Europe but miss those gatherings........ all of our fellow frens(?) left Nepal...most of them r in the US, some in other Euroepan countries and who are left..they r trying hard to leave Nepal.........Isnt it SAD????????


How r the other things? I miss Post Platform of The Kathmandu Post and Midway of The HImalayn Times. It was fun writing for them.......

Bad.. Very Bad.... these days Ive stopped writing..but will gear up soon.. Ur Book "PRATYEK THAU, PRATYEK MANCHHE" is getting really awesome response and we r v v happy. In fact I went through the book when PARKASH SAYAMI used to read on HITS FM..........

Ok Peter Uncle....... (sorry........the YOUNGEST teenager in our group ha ha ha ha ha) hope to see you in SAJHA...........

Urs Fan..........and well wisher
Amazing......... (plesae dont disclsoe my name, if u identify me )


Hey frens of SAJHA, I could have writtne him personal mail but......just want to do in SAJHA coz I would like to give him surprise.. if he could log on this time : )

------------------------AMAZING-----------------------

Goody!! a response from MR. Karthak himself :) So I could not help responding. Mind you, this is a conversation not a debate (which is the last thing that I would want to do. After all, it's a free society and we are entitled to our opinions, well, at least theoretically anyways.

First of all, not being a student of English or for that matter psychology, I had to look the term "cognitive dissonance" up in dictionary.com, to fully understand Mr. Karthak's response. Are some of the postings n Sajha confused because people do what they realling do not belive in, do not practice what they preach and enter a state of cognitive dissonance as you say? Maybe, in fact undoubtedly, some do. That cannot be avoided. But look at why this thread started. Someone looked at your article and concluded that you were trying to say something about the present state and caste strucutre of Nepal. And I think what we were trying to do was understand what exactly you were trying to say in that paragraph. Often times, one writes something and the message that gets through is something else, like the issue with the cartoon in Nepali times that's been raised in this forum somewhere else. I do not think that is is "splitting hair", but we were trying to understand a statement. That;s all.

I also did look up Ms. Thapa's article on TKP of Nov. 15th, and the thing that I take away from that article is the same thing that I took in after watching Spiderman, the movie - "With great power comes great resposibilit" (nice quote no). And if one agrees with that adage, one no longer can be a fiction writer and "brush" up facts or a journalist and write up "fiction", if I understood the article correctly. So in fact, a pure fiction writer (at least of historical novels or novels related to an existing place) or a true journalist does not exist. No matter how hard one tries, the fact that one is wriitng about some true event or place or historical fact, one must be true to the underlying structure and no matter how truthfully one tries to report, objectivity does not exisit in news. That's why we have Bill O'Reilly thriving and the rise of Fox news.

So when Mr. Karthak, you write about Badamtam or Darjeeling or even your novel, you do have your opinions inserted into the piece. And since, I do not know you personally, the only way that I can know what you are saying is by reading what you are saying. Hopeless loop, isn't it? That's what I thought too. One thing that I can do,is though, instead of crying shrilly about whatever I do not agree about in your article is try to find an alternative expression or analysis by understanding your background and reading your current article with a-priori knowledge that comes from reading your past articles. And that was only why I "rambled" on last time.